Tune of OEM ek9 suspensions


SilverCoastCTR

SilverCoastCTR

1st EK9 registered in Portugal
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
141
Car(s)
CW Honda Civic EK9 1999
Hi mates,

I have been reading around and i would like some rate about my TUNE plans for my fresh ek9 arriving in 1st week of April.

My car will be a daily drive and comes with OEM suspension and BRIDGESTONE tyres.

  1. OEM ek9 Shocks
  2. Skunk2 camber kit front and back
  3. EIBACH lower springs or SKUNK2 lower springs?
  4. Honda Civic EK EM Lowering Extended Aluminum Top Hats Suspension.
  5. Any bad points to handling after this mods?
Cheers
 
Last edited:
The skunk springs rates are-
Front Spring Rate (Tender / Main): 173 lb-in / 520 lb-in
Rear Spring Rate (Tender / Main): 106 lb-in / 291 lb-in
1 lb-in = 0.0179 kg/mm

The eibachs I can't find rates on with a quick google search so I stopped trying. But I'm fairly sure they are going to be progressive springs just like the skunk 2's, and they probably have a similar ratio of rates front to rear.

My problem with these is that you may go lower in height, reducing weight transfer, which is great, but the rates are out of balance compared to stock rates.
Stock spring rates are, IIRC, 4kg-mm in both the front and rear, making for a car that is reasonably stiff while allowing the rear to come around more in turns (fighting the natural understeer tendancy of a FWD car). Honda did that on purpose of course with the Type-R. FWD cars setup for the track routinely have stiffer springs in the rear, because a good driver wants a FWD car to have a slight tendency to oversteer (IE have the back come around) in corners. A FWD car setup in this way is great on the track with a good driver who knows how to control the car, but kind of dangerous and prone to spinning out on the street under the hands of the average user. So car companies make most all of their cars to have a tendency for understeer, which is safer in street driving. Street lowering springs from skunk2 and Eibach are the same way.

So now with the skunk 2's for instance, you are lower, and slightly stiffer in the rear, but in the fronts are no longer equal like stock, they are almost twice as stiff. This will increase understeer at high cornering levels, giving you less control over the car- if you were racing.
However this is a street car and you aren't (shouldn't be) driving at speed where the back end comes loose anyway. So you will get the look you're after with this setup, and it will probably feel faster than stock, especially on the street. But in all actuality it may be slower or the same if you took it on a track.

And then I have the same things to say here as I did in the other recent thread about my thoughts on lowering springs on stock shocks- save a bit more for adjustable coilovers and recoup a significant % of the money by selling your complete set of EK9 springs and dampers.
 
Actually I am planning on leaving the world of coilovers (Buddy Club +N) and choosing a set of stock ek9 springs and shocks (which i am going to revalve to freshen them up). The car is a civic ej9 4 door and it already has the front 26mm swaybar an 24mm rear asr kit and energy bushings all over. I got rid of bouncy harsh ride coilover, which otherwise handles supreme. Any feedback on how it should behave with a stock ek9 suspension? I know it will be softer but I am afraid it will be more prone to understeer.
 
saxophonias said:
Actually I am planning on leaving the world of coilovers (Buddy Club +N) and choosing a set of stock ek9 springs and shocks (which i am going to revalve to freshen them up). The car is a civic ej9 4 door and it already has the front 26mm swaybar an 24mm rear asr kit and energy bushings all over. I got rid of bouncy harsh ride coilover, which otherwise handles supreme. Any feedback on how it should behave with a stock ek9 suspension? I know it will be softer but I am afraid it will be more prone to understeer.
Click to expand...

With the ek9 OEM suspension will be great because it is balanced to allow great handlind dynamics according to what was written above ;-) but it will not be so low
 
Dino-Spumoni said:
The skunk springs rates are-
Front Spring Rate (Tender / Main): 173 lb-in / 520 lb-in
Rear Spring Rate (Tender / Main): 106 lb-in / 291 lb-in
1 lb-in = 0.0179 kg/mm

The eibachs I can't find rates on with a quick google search so I stopped trying. But I'm fairly sure they are going to be progressive springs just like the skunk 2's, and they probably have a similar ratio of rates front to rear.

My problem with these is that you may go lower in height, reducing weight transfer, which is great, but the rates are out of balance compared to stock rates.
Stock spring rates are, IIRC, 4kg-mm in both the front and rear, making for a car that is reasonably stiff while allowing the rear to come around more in turns (fighting the natural understeer tendancy of a FWD car). Honda did that on purpose of course with the Type-R. FWD cars setup for the track routinely have stiffer springs in the rear, because a good driver wants a FWD car to have a slight tendency to oversteer (IE have the back come around) in corners. A FWD car setup in this way is great on the track with a good driver who knows how to control the car, but kind of dangerous and prone to spinning out on the street under the hands of the average user. So car companies make most all of their cars to have a tendency for understeer, which is safer in street driving. Street lowering springs from skunk2 and Eibach are the same way.

So now with the skunk 2's for instance, you are lower, and slightly stiffer in the rear, but in the fronts are no longer equal like stock, they are almost twice as stiff. This will increase understeer at high cornering levels, giving you less control over the car- if you were racing.
However this is a street car and you aren't (shouldn't be) driving at speed where the back end comes loose anyway. So you will get the look you're after with this setup, and it will probably feel faster than stock, especially on the street. But in all actuality it may be slower or the same if you took it on a track.

And then I have the same things to say here as I did in the other recent thread about my thoughts on lowering springs on stock shocks- save a bit more for adjustable coilovers and recoup a significant % of the money by selling your complete set of EK9 springs and dampers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your detailed tips ;-) Even more dangerous i want it to slightly oversteer. When we drive we need always to be carefull and sensate and not blame the car but our skill ;-) So everything should be in our hands and feet. Street is to drive slow and circuit with the flow.

Do you know about OEM ek9 dampers stiffness?

I was thinking about saving gradually for BILSTEIN ajustable coilovers.

I am planning install Skunk2 camber arms in the OEM suspension and after some experience going straight to coilovers.. not more than 2.5x stiffer than OEM
 
Hey no problem! And yes, if you want it to have a slight oversteer tendency then choose a spring and damper setup where it's as stiff or stiffer in the back (IE not lowering springs). Take your time with your research.
I don't know about stock damper stiffness as I've never driven an actual EK9, but disregarding age of the dampers and springs, I'm sure they came well matched from the factory and certainly are not the same as your average civic dampers. You'll get to find out soon enough though and put it through its paces.

Nothing wrong with camber kits on stock suspension of course, but I would honesty just wait until you're lowered. Because you would most likely be setting them to stock settings anyway because you're at stock ride height. So while you've got everything apart for the coilovers/etc might be a better time to put those in, and then get your alignment done. However if you're tracking the car on stock suspension, maybe if you wanted to test different camber settings you would want them then.
 
Dino-Spumoni said:
Hey no problem! And yes, if you want it to have a slight oversteer tendency then choose a spring and damper setup where it's as stiff or stiffer in the back (IE not lowering springs). Take your time with your research.
I don't know about stock damper stiffness as I've never driven an actual EK9, but disregarding age of the dampers and springs, I'm sure they came well matched from the factory and certainly are not the same as your average civic dampers. You'll get to find out soon enough though and put it through its paces.

Nothing wrong with camber kits on stock suspension of course, but I would honesty just wait until you're lowered. Because you would most likely be setting them to stock settings anyway because you're at stock ride height. So while you've got everything apart for the coilovers/etc might be a better time to put those in, and then get your alignment done. However if you're tracking the car on stock suspension, maybe if you wanted to test different camber settings you would want them then.
Click to expand...

OK master ;-) I will just get the stock feeling and with that understand how much stiffer i can go...how much lower and how much camber...and when changing get the complete set and not hibrids...so a stock old set has alwsys good money value... :)
 
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