FD change and close gear set


ramboteamjon

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Apr 21, 2008
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Hey dudes hope you had a good christmas:nice: A good few questions for you to help me with please.......

I have been thinking about getting a full gear set for my ek9. Plan is to swap
the 4.9FD (havent been too impressed by this as I havent seen much jump in power, my remap has been the best mod on my car!) for a 4.4FD and buy a longer 1st gear, shorter mfactory 2nd, 3rd & 4th gear and fit a longer 5th gear from an Integra. What you think?

I am just looking for more power through the rev range without having to mess about with the engine as i like being the underdog with a 1600CC! :)

The car is a daily drive and I do a bit motorway miles at the moment hence the longer 5th but I do the odd drag racing therefore the longer 1st should help with traction. I dont care about speeds above 100mph as I never enter that territory!

I am in dire need of new Sychros and 1st/2nd gear hub kit so thought while I fit the mfactory Carbon lined 1st-5th Synchros >>>>>>>> OEM Reverse Synchro: >>>>>>>> and OEM 1st/2nd sleeve/Hub Set I will change my gear set to give my gearbox a sort of rebuild at the same time.

Also my clutch has been squeeking alot lately when lifting the clutch? I have a Spec stage 2 clutch and mfactory flywheel which was fitted about 2 years ago along with new HLHS gearbox bearings and the 4.9FD. Do I need a new release bearing? Since the squeeking I have fitted a new OEM clutch and master slave cylinder, new clutch fluid and new EK9 RX pedals and that hasnt cleared it up. Its getting worse as time passes :(

So do you think I would benefit from going to a 4.4FD instead of my 4.9FD? If anyone is interested in a swap let me know. or a 4.2FD or 4.7FD? too much choice!

Which gearset would anyone recommend from experience as I dont quite understand what each ratio means on the mfactory website? lol

Not sure if the longer 5th would ruin my plans a bit as Stephen from Mfactory said it would be really slow in 5th, anyone else done the set up I am looking to do and noticed good gains?

I am joining the family business in May so I will be saving atleast 25miles a day so fuel consumption may not need any thought as i will only use my car on weekends.

thanks in advance!:nice:
 
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I've got standard FD and short 3 4 and 5. Makes a nice improvement over standard, 5th still longish, motorway cruise gear.

3rd limits at 80
4th at 100
and 5th 135 on the clocks

If I do anything it would be to make the 5th more short, perhaps limit at 115-120mph
 
Do you really not rate the 4.9 fd ? I noticed a massive difference when I fitted a 4.7.
I'm going down the same route with ratios in the near future. If you sell your 4.9 and go back to 4.4 you'll make a decent wedge of cash to go towards you ratios.

As for a longer 5th, I run oem s4c gears with a 4.7 fd and find 5th gear bearable on the motorway I just drop my speed down a bit. Last thing you'll want is a massive jump to 5th especially with a b16 as it'll just feel dead.
 
ratios and fd give 0% increase in power but big increase in acceleration, i like 4.9 fd but not in daily car and big improvement over 4.4fd, sounds like you want even more though so id have to say 3/4/5 or just get full gearset as many on market

its hard to give advice on this as everyones preference is different and can get very techy by precisely matching gearing to specific engine setups
 
When I first ran the MF 3/4/5 kit (different ratios back then) with 4.4fd, I tried the shorter 3 & 4 with the 'longer' of their two short ratio 5ths, as you change up the gearing just feels flat, you charge up through 3rd & 4th then as you change into fifth it just bogs down, and if you already have the 4.9 I doubt you would notice the higher revs any different with a short 5th and 4.4fd.
I would leave second as it is, I think most kits do as its pretty short anyway. Full consumption is negligable with a short ratio kit. Best bet is to go out in your car and record your speeds & revs (clocks & GPS) at full chat and everyday driving and compare it to the MF calculator as you input the ratios with the correct tyre size. Unless advertised as rally use only, the 5th ratios in most kits will see you 125-135mph depending on your tyre size.
 
I've got standard FD and short 3 4 and 5. Makes a nice improvement over standard, 5th still longish, motorway cruise gear.

3rd limits at 80
4th at 100
and 5th 135 on the clocks

If I do anything it would be to make the 5th more short, perhaps limit at 115-120mph

The standard FD and short 3, 4 and 5 is what a couple of folk have recommended to me but if keeping my 4.9FD is gona improve acceleration along with the close ratio set then I will keep it. will be less hassle trying to sell it anyway and source a good 4.4FD.

Longer 5th may not be a good option. Thanks for the advice Ashy!:)

Do you really not rate the 4.9 fd ? I noticed a massive difference when I fitted a 4.7.
I'm going down the same route with ratios in the near future. If you sell your 4.9 and go back to 4.4 you'll make a decent wedge of cash to go towards you ratios.

As for a longer 5th, I run oem s4c gears with a 4.7 fd and find 5th gear bearable on the motorway I just drop my speed down a bit. Last thing you'll want is a massive jump to 5th especially with a b16 as it'll just feel dead.

I honestly cant notice much of a difference over the standard 4.4FD. I really dont know where I have gained anything apart from having higher revs when driving long distances.

Yea the idea was to make a bit back on my 4.9FD but if keeping that along with the close ratio set then I will keep it.

I wouldnt really mind the longer 5th i suppose as I dont do track and by the time I reach 70 or 80 5th will just be for cruising not acceleration.

Thanks Dave:)

ratios and fd give 0% increase in power but big increase in acceleration, i like 4.9 fd but not in daily car and big improvement over 4.4fd, sounds like you want even more though so id have to say 3/4/5 or just get full gearset as many on market

its hard to give advice on this as everyones preference is different and can get very techy by precisely matching gearing to specific engine setups

sorry I should have said acceleration rather than power. Yea I would want even more and if I did go all out it would be K20 but thats just not an option as its ridiculous money. Full gearset is what I am gona lean towards so if Mfactory have what I need then I will go with them.

Yea your right and i aint that techy and dont understand the concept of matching gearing around what I need. I just fitted a 4.9FD in the past as I had read so much good about it and now the same with a full gearset after Stevenek9 recommended it to me.

Hopefully it gives me what I need. thanks Iceman :)

When I first ran the MF 3/4/5 kit (different ratios back then) with 4.4fd, I tried the shorter 3 & 4 with the 'longer' of their two short ratio 5ths, as you change up the gearing just feels flat, you charge up through 3rd & 4th then as you change into fifth it just bogs down, and if you already have the 4.9 I doubt you would notice the higher revs any different with a short 5th and 4.4fd.
I would leave second as it is, I think most kits do as its pretty short anyway. Full consumption is negligable with a short ratio kit. Best bet is to go out in your car and record your speeds & revs (clocks & GPS) at full chat and everyday driving and compare it to the MF calculator as you input the ratios with the correct tyre size. Unless advertised as rally use only, the 5th ratios in most kits will see you 125-135mph depending on your tyre size.

Good advice Haitch thanks :) personal experiences is what I need to read about and compare with my set up and see what would suit me. Yea OEM
2nd gear will stay, longer 1st for traction then shorter 3/4/5 and see what thats like.

Perfect I will do that thanks!:)
 
Will I notice a big hike in acceleration with the short 3/4/5 gear set? it is quite a big lay out in cash and I want to know if it will actually make a big difference?

Also will keeping my 4.9FD be a good option paired with the close ratio 3/4/5th gears? Or would someone recommend getting a 4.4FD?
 
You might think its going faster with a close 3/4/5 but in reality the gains are pretty small in straight line speed and not worth changing from a 4.9FD unless you are serious about track work ?

Only real benefit ( IMO ) is with a close gear set you have more usable gears and more chance of matching corner speed/revs on track.
 
As above, probably not much difference in actual speed, with just a fd drive change, the rev drop as you change up is the same as oem, but the revs climb quickly giving the impression of lessening the rev drop, with a close set you get quicker climbing revs and less of a rev drop, for me it drives differently to just a fd change, and is still the best value mod for a B16.

My 3/4/5 kit was £630 delivered from DMRR, its a lot of outlay if you already have the 4.9fd, bear in mind with a close set and a 4.4fd, in normal town driving you can be in 5th by the time you reach 40mph - you may find you are changing gear a lot with a close set and a 4.9fd. Normal driving is effortless with a close set due to the lesser rev drop, feels great to drive.

You will get most of your money back with selling on the 4.9 if you go that route, but if you dont still have the 4.4, its a bit pointless. If your doing the box yourself, and you have the cash it is worth trying both mods as the work is free :nice:
 
You might think its going faster with a close 3/4/5 but in reality the gains are pretty small in straight line speed and not worth changing from a 4.9FD unless you are serious about track work ?

Only real benefit ( IMO ) is with a close gear set you have more usable gears and more chance of matching corner speed/revs on track.

Thanks Darragh. Track time is defo a no no for me, couldnt bring myself to take the 9 on track for fear of crashing it! lol

Got a supercar experience track day for my christmas so I will see how that goes tho!:nice: it may sway me! lol

As above, probably not much difference in actual speed, with just a fd drive change, the rev drop as you change up is the same as oem, but the revs climb quickly giving the impression of lessening the rev drop, with a close set you get quicker climbing revs and less of a rev drop, for me it drives differently to just a fd change, and is still the best value mod for a B16.

My 3/4/5 kit was £630 delivered from DMRR, its a lot of outlay if you already have the 4.9fd, bear in mind with a close set and a 4.4fd, in normal town driving you can be in 5th by the time you reach 40mph - you may find you are changing gear a lot with a close set and a 4.9fd. Normal driving is effortless with a close set due to the lesser rev drop, feels great to drive.

You will get most of your money back with selling on the 4.9 if you go that route, but if you dont still have the 4.4, its a bit pointless. If your doing the box yourself, and you have the cash it is worth trying both mods as the work is free :nice:

Thanks Haitch. Yea its defo alot of money to spend and then to not enjoy it. I keep thinking about going K20 like you but I am not sure about spending 6k +!

By the sounds of it the best thing for me to do would be to sell my 4.9FD first as I do ALOT of town driving and I dont want to ruin the fun I have in my car. I sold my 4.4FD when I bought the 4.9FD so I will source another or see if someone wants to swap plus cash my way.

Nah unfortunatly I wont be doing the work myself, as much as I would love to but I dont have the know how or tools. I have asked Stevenek9 in the past and he seemed up for it.


Cheers guys :nice:
 
4.7 final drive with 96 spec 4th and 5th ! very good for racing and motorway driving ! best of both worlds
 
4.7 final drive with 96 spec 4th and 5th ! very good for racing and motorway driving ! best of both worlds

I will look into that thanks :)

May be an option to sell my 4.9FD, buy the 4.7FD then buy the close ratio 3/4/5 from mfactory then and that may work better together.
 
I will look into that thanks :)

May be an option to sell my 4.9FD, buy the 4.7FD then buy the close ratio 3/4/5 from mfactory then and that may work better together.

If your stuck on going the gear set route for the road stick with the 4.4FD , anything higher would leave you short geared IMO.

The final drive is only to tune your overall speed
 
What ratios are you running the now ?

just standard ratios mate with 4.9FD

If your stuck on going the gear set route for the road stick with the 4.4FD , anything higher would leave you short geared IMO.

The final drive is only to tune your overall speed

Yea may just stick with the 4.9FD. Really not sure what to do, my head is a mess with all thats available! :confused:

Defo dont wana be short geared or ruin the drivability of my car as I love it apart wanting that little more of an edge from it as we all do!
 
Give me a shout if you want to try a 4.7 fd as its what's in my gearbox with the same ratios. Will be a bit of a downgrade from the 4.9 in my opinion though.
 
4.4 with a short ratio 3/4/5 gear set would get my vote! I enjoy having the 4.7 FD, it just feels more free reving and not as bogged down like it is with the oem 4.4 FD. I would admit that the 4.9 FD was a bit too extreme for me as a daily though, stuck up the revs all the time! lol
 
Ramsy, if you want to see first hand what the difference is like, gimme a shout if you are in Aberdeen any time soon and i will take you out for a spin

4.4FD / mfactory tall 1st / ATS 3 4 5

what you will find with the shorter gears is that the car will pick up and drive better whatever the revs, less of a drop in revs means you don't have to wring the neck off the engine in every gear to go fast

the video i put up of me in germany is a good one to see the difference they make on a high speed circuit, pulls very well from low down

sadly the fact is that if you want to go MUCH faster in an EK9, higher displacement is the way to go............

the additional torque of the 1800 is very noticable (well i know my engine isn't standard, but........)

food for thought really, i would say the change of gearing is certainly noticable, if it's not noticable enough for you then fit a b18 :p
 
Give me a shout if you want to try a 4.7 fd as its what's in my gearbox with the same ratios. Will be a bit of a downgrade from the 4.9 in my opinion though.

Sorry been a busy lad lately! I might do that mate, very kind of you thanks! :)


4.4 with a short ratio 3/4/5 gear set would get my vote! I enjoy having the 4.7 FD, it just feels more free reving and not as bogged down like it is with the oem 4.4 FD. I would admit that the 4.9 FD was a bit too extreme for me as a daily though, stuck up the revs all the time! lol

Yea i think 4.4FD is the way forward but its just gona be a hassle swapping out my 4.9FD and selling it and stuff so will see what happens. 4.9FD aint too bad for daily driving tho mate, you get used to it! :)

Ramsy, if you want to see first hand what the difference is like, gimme a shout if you are in Aberdeen any time soon and i will take you out for a spin

4.4FD / mfactory tall 1st / ATS 3 4 5

what you will find with the shorter gears is that the car will pick up and drive better whatever the revs, less of a drop in revs means you don't have to wring the neck off the engine in every gear to go fast

the video i put up of me in germany is a good one to see the difference they make on a high speed circuit, pulls very well from low down

sadly the fact is that if you want to go MUCH faster in an EK9, higher displacement is the way to go............

the additional torque of the 1800 is very noticable (well i know my engine isn't standard, but........)

food for thought really, i would say the change of gearing is certainly noticable, if it's not noticable enough for you then fit a b18 :p

Steven thanks for the reply. I would love to come to the DON for a blast in your car. Would be good to see what the close gear set is like.

I will have a look at your vids again cheers. Yea B18 would be nice, maybe in the future! :))

check the video on this page, m factory long first, standard 2nd, and the shortest 3rd/4th/5th they do, tops out at 100mph

pain in the arse on the motorway i would think !

http://www.ek9.org/forum/builds-projects/30144-ej9-rally-car-6.html

Cheers dave I will have a look! :)
 
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