Help with gear oil please.


BazMc EK4 S.i.R

BazMc EK4 S.i.R

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Oct 14, 2008
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I have searched here and googled Honda tech for a while and can't seem to get an exact answer for what I need.

I had a s80 box. 4.4 fd spoon plated diff and a ats gear set. I had 2 litres of castrol b373 LSD oil in it to protect the diff and half a litre of Honda mtf to thin it out to mind my gear set. Got half a track day and made scutter of 4th gear and some synchros. Now it's fully rebuilt. Gear x 1st 3rd 4th 5th new bearings synchro tech carbon synchros and the spoon diff. So lots of money on the line. Have a track day this Friday. Currently have half and half castrol b373 and Honda mtf. Now the diff is real clunky. And help or advice greatly appreciated. This is a track only car btw. Thanks.
 
Motul Gear FF-LSD Type 2 should be perfect. Specifically made for front-engine front-wheel-drive vehicles with plate diffs, and plenty of Honda racers have happily used it in their S80/S4C gearboxes with Gear-X gear kits. You might find varying reports on whether the carbon synchros are suitably durable or not (and speculation on different transmission fluids having different effects on them), but I've run the Motul fluid in my gearbox with Gear-X gears and carbon synchros and had no issues at all.
 
b373 is not a good idea for the box, just get a can of kaaz gearoil, a plated diff will always be clunky.
 
NZRacerX said:
Motul Gear FF-LSD Type 2 should be perfect. Specifically made for front-engine front-wheel-drive vehicles with plate diffs, and plenty of Honda racers have happily used it in their S80/S4C gearboxes with Gear-X gear kits. You might find varying reports on whether the carbon synchros are suitably durable or not (and speculation on different transmission fluids having different effects on them), but I've run the Motul fluid in my gearbox with Gear-X gears and carbon synchros and had no issues at all.
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The Type 2 isn't available here in the EU .. and a pain to import !

Using 100% LS 90 oil isn't going to give the synchros a chance and not provide sufficient oiling to the needle bearings . I wouldn't use any more than 1 litre of a LS oil . Ive had good experience using a 50:50 mix in the past , it should be fine but as always its going to be a trade off due to the gear set and LSD sharing the same oil.
 
Thank you for the advice. Now my only concern is the only oil I can find for sale on this side of the Atlantic is the ff lsd 75w140. Will i be able to get this heated up enough to protect my gears in the 10 lap sessions we have here. The 75w90 does not seem to be widely available anymore. My own thoughts are it should do fine as I run 10w60 in my engine and temps stay steady at 80*C all day. So guessing the gearbox heats up at the same speed it should be good. Any views appreciated greatly. Also I see torco oils will have a new oil released soon specifically for gear x kits and plated lsds.
 
Sorry for what is maybe a stupid question, but fundamentally how does the Gear X kit differ from OEM? I know the ratios are different, but in terms of oil requirements why should it be any different? With plated diffs it will always be a trade off - syncros do require a certain level of friction to operate correctly while plated diff requires a certain level of slip. I will be using Honda MTF with friction modifier in my box which will have Mfactory 4.9 and Cusco 1-way LSD in it. I don't mind the diff to be on the noisy side, after all replacing the clutch pack is easier and cheaper than replacing all syncros and hubs.
 
I am pretty sure the oil requirements are of no difference I may have worded my original post incorrectly. I stated about the gear x kit so to give weight to the fact of minding the gears. In the trade off between plated diffs and standard gears I myself would use oil to mind the lsd more than the gears and synchros. As the diff would be standing me more money.
 
Really? You can't really damage the diff as such I don't think, more the plates etc. The diff rebuild kit is bound to be cheaper than all the syncros and gears surely? For my Cusco diff it will be around £300 mark to rebuild the diff, I don't think I can get all the syncros, hubs and gears for that kind of money! Personally I'm of exactly the opposite opinion - I'd rather a box where gear change is slick and fast, the LSD works as good as it can with the downside of having to pull it out and rebuild every couple of years. I wouldn't have gone for a plate LSD if I wasn't prepared to live with the downsides. In your case the gear set makes it a no brainer to me - I'd make sure the syncros can do their work properly to save those gears and give you nice quick gear change. The LSD - although valuable - is not as expensive as the rest of the box and can be rebuild fairly easily (I've just had my LSD apart - it's the simplest thing there is!) So yeah, I'd try Honda MTF with various levels of friction modifier until you find the ideal combination. Plated LSD will wear out no matter what, if it doesn't wear out it's not doing its job IMHO
 
We'll that was my way of thinking in the past since I had a good supply of old gearboxes and parts and I used to mainly do drag racing. But now with the integra I have changed mindset as it's mainly track and the gears are costing me a lot. Anyway I thank you all for your points and I think I'll either go with my half and half mix or with 100% motul ff lsd.
 
Once you've tried it I'd be interested in hearing your experience with either. I've been researching this a lot lately and I've decided to try MTF + friction modifier, adding a bit at a time until I hopefully find the sweet spot! But if there is a mix that works in our boxes out there I'd like to know about it obviously!
 
I used redline friction modifier and redline mtl(iirc)
Was recommended torco oil but couldn't get it at the time and was told the redline stuff would do the job.

Was a lot of people saying not to use the Honda mtf but I'm not sure why. I'm not sure if the Honda mtf is full synthetic.
 
For my spoon diff I use kaaz oil , runs good for 40 mins racing nice a thick . Honda Mtf stuff is to thin will make yr diff clunk , kaaz stops all that .
 
Bigskank said:
For my spoon diff I use kaaz oil , runs good for 40 mins racing nice a thick . Honda Mtf stuff is to thin will make yr diff clunk , kaaz stops all that .
Click to expand...
If its not clunking it's not working to its full potential. It's slipping.

That's why you use the recommended grade oil and the friction modifier to get the balance right between to much friction and slipping.
You want smooth "clunks" not banging and juddering or smooth and quiet
 
Still get small amount of clunk , not as bad as putting on honda stuff . When racing the honda mtf gets to thin then makes my synco crunch when hot . Change my oil every 3 races .
 
Honda stuff is too thin for hard track work, but the box is not designed for gear oil.

I'd stick to Race Torco + FM. So far i've not kept my gearbox together for long enough for it to matter, but once its all settled it wll be torco MTF (available from tegiwa i think).
 
So did a full day of tracktime with the car.20 min breaks every 20 mins or so. Had half and half b373 and Honda oil. Only got 3 laps and would start crunching so would leave it half a lap to cool then get another three. Diff got really rattley towards the end so maybe time to repair. Have a half day coming up so will try the kaaz oil for that and see how i get on.
 
I've tried the friction modifiers before in my old box, really didn't like it and was crunching really bad.
Also had the kazz diff oil and it was so thick I struggled to pump it into the full port on the box.
I've been using fush gear oil that's designed for use in syncromesh transmissions with competition LSD's.
Can be found on opie oils
 
jesse888 said:
I've tried the friction modifiers before in my old box, really didn't like it and was crunching really bad.
Also had the kazz diff oil and it was so thick I struggled to pump it into the full port on the box.
I've been using fush gear oil that's designed for use in syncromesh transmissions with competition LSD's.
Can be found on opie oils
Click to expand...

Do you mean the Fuchs stuff? Which one is it?
 
b16 mini said:
Do you mean the Fuchs stuff? Which one is it?
Click to expand...

Always spell it wrong lol

I believe this is the stuff, you order this but they send you the Fuchs stuff instead. I've been using this oil for a good year and abit in 2 different gearbox's and both have performed fine, my kazz LSD is pretty noisey with this stuff but it does bite pretty well and the gearbox changes smooth even if I am alittle enthusiastic with it lol

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-850-sil...ar-oil-now-fuchs-titan-race-syn-5-75w-90.aspx

Another oil I've had experience with is called Syncro 80. Alittle harder to find but a quick google should find it somewhere. I didn't run this oil long because I had to change the clutch ready for the turbo build but it was again faultless, pevious owner of my car run this and swears by it. Seemed to make the LSD alittle more quiet aswell.
 
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