Question for those with Spoon or MFactory Close Ratio Gears/Gear Sets


Sleeper Status

Sleeper Status

Ultraspeed FA5
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
424
Hello fellow EK9 enthusiast.
Was looking for some feedback on the Spoon and MFactory Close Ratio Gears/Gear Sets.
Specifically speaking the MFactory Road Series 1st Gear (3.070) and the Spoon 2nd Gear (1.944)
Looking to make my own Cross Ratio box, somewhat.
Main concern is if there is any Gear noise associated with them? From the looks of it there both Helical cut gears but I haven't seen or read much about any noise or anything of that sort. Some info and input would be appreciated :)


Cheers
(So weird for me to say that not coming form the UK :p)
 
MFactory are semi helical cut and Id imagine Spoon are too so they will whine a slight bit more than the standard helical cut. 1st/2nd shouldnt be too noisy anyway , you will only really notice gearbox whine in higher gears at cruising speed :nice:
 
I have an ATS cross gearset 3/4/5 in my car

When installing the gears i noticed that the teeth are chunkier than oem, guessing to make them stronger! They do whine a tiny bit, especially 5th gear though, however it's not annoying or anything

tbh 1/2 gear are perfect as they are with the 4.4FD, however my mate has a full spoon cross gearset 1-5 fitted to his DC2 and got to admit it's awesome :nerv:

His gears

YouTube - Integra with Spoon Gearset

My gears

 
My main reason for this is to keep the RPM Drops consistent/close between gear shifts.

Here are the specs of the Stock Box shifting @ 8500rpm

Gears: OEM per Spoon
1st = 3.231
2nd = 2.105
3rd = 1.458
4th = 1.103
5th = .848

1st to 2nd Shift = 5537rpm in 2nd
2nd to 3rd Shift = 5887rpm in 3rd
3rd to 4th Shift = 6430rpm in 4th
4th to 5th Shift = 6534rpm in 5th

Now from the info I've found factory B16B crossover occurs @ ~6000rpm
Now assuming no wheel spin you'll drop out of VTEC in your 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd shifts.

After doing a little bit of more research I came up with some possible combination. Now the differences aren't "Big" so to speak but the difference is there and I'm pretty picky on little details such as this.



OEM Box w/ MFactory 3.070 1st Gear

1st to 2nd Shift = 5828rpm in 2nd
2nd to 3rd Shift = 5887rpm in 3rd

Now this isn't a big difference but it keeps you that much closer to staying in VTEC rather than having to build that ~300rpm to get back into VTEC. Again assuming no wheel spin.



OS Giken 1st and 2nd w/ OEM 3rd-5th
1st = 2.818
2nd = 2.000


1st to 2nd Shift = 6032rpm in 2nd
2nd to 3rd Shift = 6196rpm in 3rd
3rd to 4th Shift = 6430rpm in 4th


This set-up would be my choice providing I could find the 1st and 2nd separate from the 3rd-5th gears. Keeps you above 6k in every shift thus keeping you in VTEC all the time providing you shift at redline.




Again some of you may think I'm an idiot but I'm picky and **** about my set-ups so yeah.

The rest of the set-up will consist of:

4.785 MFactory ITR final Drive
CTR Enkei 15x6+50
195/55/15

5th @ redline will be 145mph which is the max the USDM Si EM1 Cluster maxes at. burring the needle is of no concern to me nor would I need to go that fast. Main use is Daily and Road Race.

60mph is 3500 in 5th which isn't all too bad considering "stevenEK9" has the ATS cross 3rd-5th and in 5th with the Stock 4.4 FD he does 60mph @ 3800rpm so for me I think I'll be fine.



Edit: I am aware that my VTEC Crossover can be changed but meh, I'm fine with the 6k Crossover.

Edit2: Perhaps a Full OSG Gear set and the Factory 4.4 FD??
 
Last edited:
Seems pricey simply to keep the VTEC on, besides doesn't VTEC disengage at a lower rpm than it engages at? The default settings on my VAFC lead me to believe this is the case, used to be 5500rpm engage and 5200rpm disengage on my B16a, now using 6200 in and 5700 out with the B16B.

I'm all for using a long first and second, but the price of the mainshaft kits required to accomplish this makes it un-economical when compared to say, raising the rev limit or lowering the engagement.
 
Last edited:
I am over the moon with my gearset

Standard 1/2 and ATS 3/4/5

Vtec as Kozy mentioned is at 6200 on a standard ECU, however i have been running a spoon ecu and about to have the car tuned on crome so vtec is lowered anyways

Long 1st/2nd isn't always good, mate was needing 1st at knockhill for the hairpin in his DC2 with that spoon gearset = not ideal

3/4/5 are nice and short but most importantly well spaced, seen Mfactory gearsets which look nice and short from 2-3 and 3-4 but then bog down big time into 5th


End of the day it depends what you are using the car for and your engine setup. My car is a track focussed car, only time i will be shifting from 1-2 is exiting the pits..........
 
Thanks for the input guys. It wasn't only to keep in VTEC but also simply we don't make power there.

Greatly appreciate the feedback and info.
 
Do you do any form of competition in the car at all?

My ideal setup is (assuming 130lbft to pull it)

3.070
2.105
1.695
1.387
1.130
4.05 Final

The 1st and final combo should see some good speed in 1st and with 130lbft it should pull though just as easy as a stock B16. I am only considering this for autocross/autotesting though, where 1st gear gets abused heavily. Otherwise, I would definately just focus more on the higher gears. TBH launching is never going to be a B16s strong point because of the lack of torque, no matter what you do with the gearing. Just focus on keeping on the power once up to speed. :nice:
 
Last edited:
spoon gear sets would also be used with as spoon ecu

so a higher rev limit and lower vtec engagement point

i would only go for custom gears if it was for a track car and they would be straight cut and dogmission
 
As of this point the car is not I my possession but I'm in the planning stages. Main use for it will be Road Race, some Daily and maybe a few mess around Highway/Motorway runs.

The main thing was I didn't like the big rpm drop from 1st to 2nd. Maybe I'll try them ou in stages starting with:

Stock Box w/ 4.785 FD

Throw in the MFactory 3.070 1st

Then maybe move up to the OSG ger set if I feel the need.
 
Kozy said:
Do you do any form of competition in the car at all?

My ideal setup is (assuming 130lbft to pull it)

3.070
2.105
1.695
1.387
1.130
4.05 Final
Click to expand...

Thats the setup i run and its bloody nice:

Engine speeds in top gear:-
40 KPH = 1681 RPM 50 KPH = 2101 KPM 60 KPH = 2521 RPM 80 KPH = 3362 RPM
100 KPH = 4202 RPM 110 KPH = 4622 RPM 130 KPH = 5463 RPM 160 KPH = 6723 RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 74.457 KPH
And changes into 2 gear at 5828 RPM dropping 2672 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 108.590 KPH
And changes into 3 gear at 6844 RPM dropping 1656 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 134.857 KPH
And changes into 4 gear at 6955 RPM dropping 1545 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 164.803 KPH
And changes into 5 gear at 6925 RPM dropping 1575 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 202.285 KPH

I actually daily drive this gearbox and its absolutely fine on the road. Cruising at 4,200 rpm isn't that bad at all. While the shift from first to second is alot closer with that taller first, its still not as close as i'd like it to be. I'm so glad i got this setup over the other common gearkits which are only a tad closer then factory.

In my rally car I've got a custom quafe setup with a 86kph first gear and then 1,200rpm rev drops between changes, finishing up with a 197 kph top speed. THAT is really nice but comes at a cost.

Honestly for the setup you discribe I wouldn't worry about 1st and 2nd gears. The absolute ratio (gear ratio x final drive) is still really high so you've got tonnes of torque and both those gears come and go really quickly. Close gears are more important with the gears you'll use more often. For your setup i'd say you're beter off getting the 4.9 final drive. Dont muck about, the box is apart and it'll cost you exactly the same, the difference in cruising rpm is not much and you'll get better gains. As it stands going from 4.4 to 4.7 isn't that much. It is an improvement but nothing to get excited about. Then chuck in the first gear, not only will it make it closer to second but it'll bring 1st gears top speed up a bit which is good because you just reduced it and almost made it a waste of time going to 4.9.

Top Fuel sell a first and second gear kit seperately but you have to remember that it is extremely expensive because you're not just buying the gears but also the whole main shaft which is where the money is in these other complete kits.

FYI, I'm going to be building the same box as above but with a 4.9 final drive for another gravel rally car. Should absolutely haul ass!
 
stevenEK9 said:
Long 1st/2nd isn't always good, mate was needing 1st at knockhill for the hairpin in his DC2 with that spoon gearset = not ideal
Click to expand...


Long first gear is very good. It means that you're actually using your entire box, not just 4 gears or for some people with standard ratios 3 gears. Now you're maximising the box and letting the use of all 5 gears make you faster, after all gearing is EVERYTHING.

A tall first gear means that you'll use first in certain circumstances. It means you'll be right up there in the power in first gear rather then lagging in second. This can be an advantage on a tight cicuit where you'll get the extra power and torque of 1st. Its also a huge advantage when say you go two wide into a hairpin and both dont have ideal lines but you're in first up high in the revs and the guy beside you is way down the power in second. Bang! You get the jump on him and when you shift to second you've got a closer rev drop between gears again so your advantage grows further.

The tall first is actually helpful off the line too. As long as first gear isn't too large and it starts to effect our guttless little Honda engines you'll have a first that you can get the power to the ground effectively in. Factory Honda first gears start and finish in a blink of an eye especially when launching high so by dragging it out further first becomes more useable. Once again you'll have that closer shift from first to second to gain an advantage on the guy next to you.

I tell you what its pretty magic in a rally stage where things get very tight and technical and you can dial first for a few corners and have so much useable power ready instead of falling behind in 2nd as you come in and out of vtec with no power.
 
First of all, it is "Close Gear Set", not "Cross Gear Set". The reason why ATS/Spoon/OS use "Cross" is because the Japanese can't pronounce "Close" and say "Cross" instead ;)

The most economical setup would be to change 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th whilst retaining the oem 2.015 2nd Gear. Our longer 1st gear is specifically designed to make both 1st and 2nd more "engaging", than if you were just to use the oem 1st/2nd combo. Best of all, it is also designed to be used with the oem mainshaft, so is an inexpensive upgrade.

If you want anything longer (i.e lower number than 3.07), then you need to change the mainshaft to accomplish this. We actually have had a longer 2.786/1.900 1st/2nd combo for over 2 years now, but has mainly only been our drag racing customers who use these.

As for the comment on our gears "bogging into 5th", this would just depend on which 5th ratio you choose (we have 5 different ratios to choose from). The only ratio that we have where you would feel this "bog" is with our 1.000 and this for done on purpose i.e We made a "compromise" gear, between increase in acceleration and lower rpm cruising on the freeway. Choose any other ratio, and I guarantee you there is no "bogging" ;)
 
tysonzane said:
Thats the setup i run and its bloody nice.

Honestly for the setup you discribe I wouldn't worry about 1st and 2nd gears. The absolute ratio (gear ratio x final drive) is still really high so you've got tonnes of torque and both those gears come and go really quickly. Close gears are more important with the gears you'll use more often. For your setup i'd say you're beter off getting the 4.9 final drive. Dont muck about, the box is apart and it'll cost you exactly the same, the difference in cruising rpm is not much and you'll get better gains. As it stands going from 4.4 to 4.7 isn't that much. It is an improvement but nothing to get excited about. Then chuck in the first gear, not only will it make it closer to second but it'll bring 1st gears top speed up a bit which is good because you just reduced it and almost made it a waste of time going to 4.9.
Click to expand...

Whoa, going from a 4.05 to a 4.9 final is a fair whack different, 4900rpm at 60mph would get a bit tiresome day to day and a top speed of 106mph is no good.

Or are you talking about fitting the 4.9, 3.07 first and leaving the rest stock?
 
That's what I recommend as a cheap starter setup for the OP.

A 4.9 with my setup is perfect. In rallying you'll only just reach that top speed. No point having a top speed you'll never hit, may as well whack it down and maximize the torque output :) .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top