Brake Advice


lazybean

lazybean

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Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
416
Ok guys got a bit of an issue here.

Ill explain the situation as well as i can.

The car started off as an EK3 so small front calipers and rear drums.
I have swapped out to 282mm 98 spec UK Integra brakes front and the rear brakes from the same car.

I have got rid of the ABS and proportioning valve and installed a rear bias instead.

I have no leaks and have bled the brakes a few times, there is no air in the system (that i'm aware of). The brakes feel OK without the engine running.

When the engine is on the pedal just drops to the floor, very little resistance.
When i roll the car around the back garden, I can get the car to brake but it doesn't lock quick at all, it just slowly comes to a stop with my foot to the ground.

Here are some pictures of the setup.

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What is going on here?

Not sure what im doing wrong? or is this ok? does it need to be driven around for a while?
 
In my car ,I wouldn't use copper lines or bronze fittings for my brake setup...

Are copper pipes suitable for brake lines?:nerv:
 
well there isnt any air coming out. But ill go do it again I guess there could be air further up the lines?
 
KOUVPASIR said:
In my car ,I wouldn't use copper lines or bronze fittings for my brake setup...

Are copper pipes suitable for brake lines?:nerv:
Click to expand...

Yeah all race cars use copper lines. because they are run inside the vehicle there is no chance of breakage and much less chance of corrosion.
 
Copper is fine (the stuff that is used for brake lines is not pure copper btw, pure copper would not be good!). Is this a road going or track only car? Your setup has one major flaw - you are supposed to be running the brakes on two separate circuits - front right and rear left on one, front left and rear right on another. That way if one brake fails you still have a front and a rear brake and you should be able to stop the car safely (just about). The way you set it up if the front fails you are buggered. This is what I'm going to get when the time comes and I have the spare cash: A P Racing Twin Bore Lever Type Proportioning Valve - Demon Tweeks
 
oifovo said:
Copper is fine (the stuff that is used for brake lines is not pure copper btw, pure copper would not be good!). Is this a road going or track only car? Your setup has one major flaw - you are supposed to be running the brakes on two separate circuits - front right and rear left on one, front left and rear right on another. That way if one brake fails you still have a front and a rear brake and you should be able to stop the car safely (just about). The way you set it up if the front fails you are buggered. This is what I'm going to get when the time comes and I have the spare cash: A P Racing Twin Bore Lever Type Proportioning Valve - Demon Tweeks
Click to expand...

The brake lines are a copper nickel compound (kunifer). That's why the brake lines are run inside the car, so there is very little chance of them failing due to knocks or bangs. This way I can adjust the rear bias for dry/wet conditions. running diagonals requires a proportioning valve, this is designed for road cars. That valve you just posted works in the exact same way as mine, you wont be able to run diagonals. The difference being that one has presets for adjusted pressures.

All track cars use this setup.
My issue is whether or not having the engine running affects the bleeding procedure.
 
I always bleed my brakes with the engine running, I find you get all of the air out a lot quicker than doing it with the engine off.

Maybe try doing that?

Harv
 
Are you still using the ek3 mc? And did you bleed the mc before brakes?
 
lazybean said:
The brake lines are a copper nickel compound (kunifer). That's why the brake lines are run inside the car, so there is very little chance of them failing due to knocks or bangs. This way I can adjust the rear bias for dry/wet conditions. running diagonals requires a proportioning valve, this is designed for road cars. That valve you just posted works in the exact same way as mine, you wont be able to run diagonals. The difference being that one has presets for adjusted pressures.

All track cars use this setup.
My issue is whether or not having the engine running affects the bleeding procedure.
Click to expand...

I know it's not relevant to your question, but oifovo is correct, the setup is dodgy. The copper lines are fine, but the flexible parts running out the wheel arch to the calipers are prone to failure, and if you lose one front at speed, you better have some good run off because the rear brakes won't be stopping you in a hurry.

That bias valve he linked allows you to maintain the diagonal split (it is 'twin bore' not single bore) like a road car and still have adjustability like a track car. No arguments, it is the best way to do it.

However, it's your car, if you want to take the gamble and save a few quid that's up to you.
 
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This is your setup.

20121109_213949.jpg


This is the proper way of doing it with the AP valve.

Noabssplit.jpg
 
nearly all rally cars are set up like he's done it, the only ones that run the dual lever bias valve are the ones that have to, ie group N/production based cars

racmsa think its fine that way and there really fussy !
 
that brake line running along the front wheel arch is in the line of fire from stones etc when the car is turning, if the wheel gets knocked back with lock on its goodbye brake pipe and goodbye brakes

i put the front 'T' in the engine bay with the copper coming out above where your braided hose is

have you got a 1" mastercylinder fitted ?

what happens if you start it with the servo pipe pulled off the servo ?
 
I'm aware the front lines aren't in the best location. I will find a better way to route these, with less lines exposed.

but if we ignore all of that for now. There is just something not right, there must be air in the system somewhere. I have a 1" master cylinder off a prelude in there now. repeated the same bleeding process. Still a problem. Its nothing to do with the booster, that is working perfectly.

I'm going to try gravity bleeding and if that doesn't work ill have to get my hands on a power bleeder or vacuum bleeder. This sucks so much :(
 
When you bleed the calipers (f/r), have you tried pumping the pedal a couple of times to build the pressure up then bleed in sequence?

Also, have you tried tapping the calipers all over with a rubber mallet? I had to do this with the wilwoods I recently put on.

you did bleed the mc right? :nice:
 
Wazer said:
When you bleed the calipers (f/r), have you tried pumping the pedal a couple of times to build the pressure up then bleed in sequence?

Also, have you tried tapping the calipers all over with a rubber mallet? I had to do this with the wilwoods I recently put on.

you did bleed the mc right? :nice:
Click to expand...


awesome i will try the rubber mallet!

I have a feeling its something to do with the fronts
 
lazybean said:
awesome i will try the rubber mallet!

I have a feeling its something to do with the fronts
Click to expand...

Anything to get it sorted man, I spent like a hour on each caliper - just when i though it was done I tapped it all over and loads of bubbles were bled. Pretty annoying lol.

Hope you get it sorted though:)
 
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