more balanced braking how ?


T

TAOTAO

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Hi All,

I have EJ9 and I did rear brake conversion, both front and rear are 262mm and have stainless brake line, I read a lot on the Brake Booster, Master Cylinder, Prop. Valve combinations and I want to hear your opinion regarding this.

As I am looking for more balance braking, what I mean is even with the 262mm on the rear, the car "nose" (front=)) movement is still noticeable, and I fill that the front wheel lock too early than I expected, as I think that I miss some rear braking power.

the big question is how can I get more balanced braking (what will help me in the car "behavior") with minimal modification and change that will not be to aggressive (in braking trim aspect).

Thanks ahead for the answers.
 
Disc brakes are a LOT less powerful, per unit pressure, that drum brakes.

What this means is that the drum brake prop valve delivers a lot less pressure that the disc brakes require, and means they are doing significantly less work than the original drum brakes were doing, meaning you're getting lots of nose dive and front lock ups.

Get an EK9 prop valve in there before you do anything else. Even an EK4 one would do. Some say there's no difference but no-one really knows (not even Honda themselves, I have checked) and I am inclined to believe there is.
 
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Even with a correct prop valve on a front and rear disk setup, you "may" still have a balance issue. Ive elected to use different compound in the rear pads vs. front, to gain a tad extra braking power and control.
Another way would be to introduce an adjustable brake bias adjuster into the mix.
 
Adjustable bias is the best way, no doubt. Expensive if you want to retain the diagonal split for safety though.

Using different compounds works, but it would pay to look at the friction vs temperature charts for the compounds you are looking at. If you use a 'better' pad in the rear and an 'average' one in the front (very common with MX5s) you want to check that the better pad doesn't get significantly better when hot while the average pad stays the same or perhaps even drops slightly. That would lead to increasing rear bias throughout a track session which might catch some people out.
 
I know that the "nose dive" will there, but I want to minimize it in the most "easy" way.
adjustable bias is the best but currently I want to save the money for other parts (coilovers e.s).

So you can say that the "easy" way or the next step will be to get EK9/EK4 prop valve ? is this is the 40/40 prop valve that I see on every thread ? as I see that some said that the EK DX Hatchback already came with same prop valve as the Si model, on my EJ9 its look like this one.

somebody know if the "direct fit" ? as now I have different prop valve, and I really don't want to cut/change the hardline from it.
 
40/40 Prop Valve is a non ABS prop valve for Fr/R Disc brakes. If you don't have ABS than that's what you need, if you do have ABS you need an EK9 or EK4 prop valve. Whether the hard lines line up I'm not sure, but you need to get one in, there's no other way round it. Making up new hard lines is easy, just get a basic flaring tool kit off fleabay.
 
TAOTAO said:
I know that the "nose dive" will there, but I want to minimize it in the most "easy" way.
Click to expand...

The reason you are getting nose dive is because the rear suspension reacts to brake force by squatting down, you can see this if you try and pull away with the handbrake on. Because you rear brakes are now doing less work, that force causing the rear to squat is reduced, and the back end rises as a result. Getting the bias right will certainly reduce it, ideally cars should brake as flat as possible, just hunkering down into the road instead of pitching forwards. :nice:
 
Kozy said:
The reason you are getting nose dive is because the rear suspension reacts to brake force by squatting down, you can see this if you try and pull away with the handbrake on. Because you rear brakes are now doing less work, that force causing the rear to squat is reduced, and the back end rises as a result. Getting the bias right will certainly reduce it, ideally cars should brake as flat as possible, just hunkering down into the road instead of pitching forwards. :nice:
Click to expand...

Spot on.
:win:

P.S., I would hold off on coil overs until you get your brake setup working correctly.
 
Kozy I know the reason for the "nose dive" (-: but thanks for the explanation:thanks:, as for the 40/40 indeed I need it as I don't have any ABS on my EJ9.

If there is other opinion fill free to replay, I going to search some 40/40 prop valve :)
 
TAOTAO said:
Kozy I know the reason for the "nose dive" (-: but thanks for the explanation:thanks:, as for the 40/40 indeed I need it as I don't have any ABS on my EJ9.

If there is other opinion fill free to replay, I going to search some 40/40 prop valve :)
Click to expand...

Send Ricky (Eternal blue 2000) a PM, he should be able to sort you out ;)
 
FYI, I have a buddy here in the USofA having pedal "feel" issues with his current setup. ITR master and SI booster, they don't seem to like to work together. He also thinks it might be the proportioning valve from the SI [which did not have ABS here in the USofA].
I guess why I am telling you this is for the reason that you may want to make sure all parts will be compatible; Master, Booster, and Proportioning Valve.
Ive only done the conversion from drum to disk one time, but I followed this thinking and have never had an issue. In my case I used all CTR parts, Master, Booster and Proportioning Valve. ;)

Good luck!
 
Spring rates are another factor in braking effort. Might be worth looking into on your set up. I've done a lot of work on group n rally civics in the effort to get maximum braking without locking the rear.
 
As I said the next things is suspension, but first the brakes :) of course coilovers and stiffen the front/rear will improve the "nose dive" but this is the next step.
 
Spring rates will mask the problem, but the root of the problem will still be there.
 
Hi All,

I just came home and go the the car, and see that prop valve on my EJ9 and its look the same as the 40/40, or only on the externally it looks the same ?

this is what I have on the car:
 
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I have a similar issue on my EJ9 mate,

my brake prop valve looks the same as yours yet I had no rear discs until i converted.

apparantly the one you need if off an early integra non-abs all-disc.

i get the feeling they'll all look the same...no-one has confirmed if there's a stamped number on the valve.

matt.
 
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