S4C LSD issues


Tadman

Tadman

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
196
Just got myself a s4c lsd gearbox out of an ek9 with 60,000miles on it and apparently doesn't go into 5th or reverse. Is this a common problem? And is there any guide on the forum of how to strip these? My old man reckons he used to do gearbox repairs on vans and other vehicles just wondering if there are any rules or certain stripping procedures that must follow for striping these down?

Any help is appreciated, I don't really want to pay someone to strip it as otherwise I wouldn't have bought the gearbox, i am pretty confident that we can do it as we have stripped a few bike gearbox's down in the past :)

Cheers guys!
 
I'd check all the linkages 1st, haven't fitted a short shifter or something recently?
 
I'm not sure if it had a short shifter :/ do they tend to damage gearbox internals?

What an awesome link though!! Now I can strip that down and find out the problem :) if anything has broken up where is best place to buy individual bits from? Also where it has only done 60,000 miles as a general should it be alright? I mean I don't know if it's had some monkey shifting badly throughout its life but as a general?

But as you said ill check it shifts before stripping it down atm

Cheers guys!
 
Short shifter allows you to change gears quicker, but the downside is it puts more strain on the internals as the syncros have less time to do their job.
I'm always a bit dubious when it comes to 60000 mile cars, engines, boxes etc. I'm not saying yours is not, but you have to bare in mind that even the youngest EK9 is going to be 13 years old now... As for the condition of the gearbox after so many years - I think it depends more on how did the previous owner treat the box rather than the actual mileage (although low mileage is obviously a good thing!)
To me your problem seems to be related to the shift forks...
 
Okay mate nice one yeah course like you said no idea how it was treated he coulda shagged every gear and it would only last 5mins!
Okay I'll keep a good look out when stripping this down and hope for the best, 5th and reverse is all on one side of the gear throw so does that mean that it's on the same fork but different positions? We will see :)

Cheers for all this help though it's much appreciated!
 
What I meant by having just fitted a short shifter is most are over tightened at the joint with the shifter rod. This makes it too tight to move the gear stick over to 5th/reverse, another thing I'd check first is that you haven't bent one of the shifting rods for some reason.
 
Ahh a very interesting point, well the gearbox I have just bought so I don't actually know if one was fitted and over tightened. How would the best way to bench test this gearbox as just incase there isn't anything wrong with it!!

Cheers
 
Gearbox on or off the car? Off the car get a screwdriver into the hole the shifting rod connects to. You can now move it left and right and up and down. These are your gears. You'll feel them as you catch each one. If you can't get reverse the first time put it back into neutral, (Centre,centre) turn the input shaft abit then try again.
Remember that the shifter puts the opposite direction on the selector thingy the rod connects to. So left on the gearstick is right on the gearbox.
 
Yeah I was thinking something like a screwdriver or some rod, yeah course as it pivots just under the car body nice one, yeah off the car as it's in my garage atm haha! Bearing in mind will I have any difficulties shifting with no oil in it?

Another thing, how hard is it to replace the gearbox onto my car? I have the s4c non lsd ek4 gearbox on atm, definitely a straight swap? Clutch and flywheel too? Also while I'm doing this is it worth getting another lighter flywheel just cause I can or is there not much difference?

And is there another lovely guide to swapping the gearbox over :)

Cheers
 
Yup, it's a straight swap! Also I think the selector forks are the same so you could cannibalise your old box for parts. You will need to confirm this tho as I'm not 100% sure. Lighter flywheel is a great mod imho, there are a few downsides (just do your research, plenty articles on the internet!) but the benefits outweigh all of these. Also if you're opening the box check your syncros for clearances and wear, this is also the best time to address any other issues (bearings etc.). Once you've taken the old box out check the clutch, even if it is still good and you'll be reusing it I would replace the throw out bearing, they are cheap and it will probably save you some hassle later on.
 
Lovely mate excellent! Infact I would imagine the forks would swap over as I think the only difference is the lsd and the final drive as people put the lsd into ek4 non lsd s4c gearbox's

To be honest a lighter flywheel does sound nice, obv not too light as daily driving would be a pain but something with quicker pickup but like you said I will look into it :)

Good point! I never thought about using my old box for bits! And considering I collected the new one cheap maybe it's in the picture :) throw out bearing? Okay bud I'll look into that! Once the new box is stripped ill get a list of bits to replace and sort it properly in one go.

Awesome information mate! That's like exactly what I needed In order to do it right so thank you!

Cheers
 
i had a chance to play with this gearbox today and while bench shifting it it seemed to go into 1st,2nd,3rd,4th but did struggle going into 5th and i couldnt put it into reverse, so i stripped it down following that guide and once it was stripped you could see why it wouldnt shift nicely to 5th and reverse, it "seems" that Shift Change Assembly wasnt quite allowing the tab to rotate over enough to the last fork tab (5th and reverse) when you rotate the shift rod the unit stops and caps out on (i want to say) back Y shaped post? so this is doing all the movement it needs to, now bearing in mind it may not be that accurate as obv the other side of the casing being off will move the components instead of rotate them but i had 3 of us trying to simulate that the other side was on.. i had to force the Reverse Change Holder down on the reverse idle gear and operate the makeshift shift screwdriver and my old man spinning the gears by hand to get it in and it was still reluctant, anything that could cause this or what i should strip down and inspect?

im not sure where to take it from here with that problem but i did inspect the rest of the internals and it seems to be in very good condition, non of the syncro teeth look worn at all to be honest, there is no wear marks on much i could see apart from possibly a few little marks on the actual gear teeth themselves but nothing major, all the bearings feel very smooth and no metal filings on the magnet.

if anyone can help me as i am going to strip the Gear Change Assembly off the gearbox tomo and see if i can see anything damaged/worn which could give me more of an insight into why its not shifting properly.

Sorry if its long winded, just want to get as much info across as possible haha

Cheers
 
I have the shift forks and shifter mech from a compatible box if needed. I bought them to fix my 5th gear, but it turned out to be a broken mfactory part - now mid replacement.

Be careful what conclusions you draw with the box in bits - because as you suspect my perfectly fucntional shifter mech changes like a pig into all gears (especially 5th, which is very difficult).

Was this the 155quid on on ebay? Was tempted, but i don't need another one really!
 
Yeah it was the 155 one on eBay haha! My old man randomly bought it! Good though haha, while I had the gearbox open it was clear that the main shaft bearing was nackered! So much side play! But still ran free as anything, it seems that as there was play the 5th/reverse fork was pushing up but was stopping on the back of case with the play? And not properly mating the synchro rings which meant the tab which goes into the reverse fork thing (can't remember name :S) wasn't moving in the channel properly and locking up..

When I pushed down on the main shaft nackered bearing and shifted it went into reverse obviously not trouble free but then the shafts wernt spinning etc, and the reverse idle fork went fully into position (according to the guide cut for the ball bearings catch)

This is what I think is the issue anyway :S all the synchro's are damage free which is lucky! No wear at all! When the bearing comes I'm going to put the case back on without any sealant and try and shift through the gears and see how that works :)

Cheers
 
I know an old thread but after buying the new bearing and costing me £60 only to find the new bearing has very similar If not the same amount of play.. Awesome.

On a closer Inspection I noticed the bottom of the reverse idle gear the teeth do have damage :( I believe all of them have mild damage and 2 or 3 teeth have slightly more.. Even with a bur on the worst one. I have managed to carefully file the high spots away and smooth the tooth over.. Also the gear that the reverse idle gear slots into also has slight damage but not as bad as the idle gear.. Without buying those 2 individual gears and stripping one of the gear shafts down I'm not too sure what to do.. I hope to god it shifts into reverse without too much trouble as it was such a steal for a ek9 gearbox with lsd
 
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