understeer advice needed.......


M

madfortar

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Mar 29, 2010
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ok ive a problem.was at a trackday in mondello yesterday 10/7/11 and ive a serious understeer problem,basically when i turn into a corner i have bad under steer and loose alot of time because of this,i have an ek4 rallycar b16a2 "standard" s4c box "no llsd" proflex suspention.i was using silverstone tarmac tyres "hard compound" and i thought because of the hard compound that it mite be the tyres so i switched to kuhmos medium compound but still had the same problem so then i thought it mite be tyre pressures so i set the pressures to 28psi "from hot" then 26psi "from hot" then 30psi "from hot" and to be honest it made no difference between them..have ye any ideas lads on what could help me?oh i have standard bushings all over and standard antiroll bars front and back.thanks for the advice in advance
 
Is this the first time you have driven the car on a circuit? I don't know much about the proflex suspension but the problem could stem from using a rally suspension on circuit. Unsure what the differences are but an off road car is going to have different stiffness and damping requirements to a track setup.

You'll certainly be lacking some rear roll stiffness with the stock ek4 anti roll bar, so that would be worth looking into.

Going right down to basics, have you checked your RTA bushings and droplinks for damage?
 
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get a diff, disconnect the front anti roll bar, half a degree toe out on the front 2 degrees toe in on the back.

you may want to adjust the front low speed rebound once you disconnect your anti roll bar.

all these mods with great help turn in
 
go slower into the corners, feather the trottle on the way out. failing that you could adjust your camber, toe and beef up your anti roll bars etc...
 
madfortar said:
yes they all seemed fine because i checked everything the week before
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Better give them another quick check though, a broken rear droplink would cause increased understeer, nothing to say it couldn't have broken between you checking it and the trackday!
 
Eoghain said:
get a diff, disconnect the front anti roll bar, half a degree toe out on the front 2 degrees toe in on the back.

you may want to adjust the front low speed rebound once you disconnect your anti roll bar.

all these mods with great help turn in
Click to expand...

are you serious about disconnecting the front anti roll bar??i thought that would help me having it,ya ive the front toed out to 1.5 and id the back toed out to 2.so your saying toe in at the back?and ya i need a diff lol
 
Kozy said:
Better give them another quick check though, a broken rear droplink would cause increased understeer, nothing to say it couldn't have broken between you checking it and the trackday!
Click to expand...

it went onto the trailer last week after i checked it and i had a quick look this morning on the lift and everything seemed ok.
 
That's good, one thing on the list that can be crossed off then!

How long have you owned the car? Is the understeer a new problem?
 
Kozy said:
That's good, one thing on the list that can be crossed off then!

How long have you owned the car? Is the understeer a new problem?
Click to expand...

a year ish,well ive done 3 rallys to date and i did notice on tight turns/squares ect that i did get a bit of understeer but i just thought that it was normal coz maybe i was just pushing hard and that combined with gravel ect on some of the corners....on a track i just felt it more maybe i was pushing it a bit more on the corners coz you dont have poles or a ditch or walls 2 r 3 feet either side of you lol
 
Kozy said:
Is this the first time you have driven the car on a circuit? I don't know much about the proflex suspension but the problem could stem from using a rally suspension on circuit. Unsure what the differences are but an off road car is going to have different stiffness and damping requirements to a track setup.

You'll certainly be lacking some rear roll stiffness with the stock ek4 anti roll bar, so that would be worth looking into.

Going right down to basics, have you checked your RTA bushings and droplinks for damage?
Click to expand...

yup 1st time,yes thats true about the suspension but this was very noticable understeer twas like i was in a boat
 
madfortar said:
are you serious about disconnecting the front anti roll bar??i thought that would help me having it,ya ive the front toed out to 1.5 and id the back toed out to 2.so your saying toe in at the back?and ya i need a diff lol
Click to expand...

Yess you want toe in on the rear , do you have a rear anti roll bar? is your car poly bushed though out? or just certain sections?
 
madfortar said:
are you serious about disconnecting the front anti roll bar??i thought that would help me having it,ya ive the front toed out to 1.5 and id the back toed out to 2.so your saying toe in at the back?and ya i need a diff lol
Click to expand...

the rear of the car should not be toe'd out!!

and yes i am serious, by disconnect the front anti roll bar it will give the car better turn in, but you will need to adjust you front dampers.

i have alot of experience with ek4 and eg6 rally cars, pm me if you want any more info.

might be able to help with a second hand Kaaz diff too
 
Eoghain said:
the rear of the car should not be toe'd out!!

and yes i am serious, by disconnect the front anti roll bar it will give the car better turn in, but you will need to adjust you front dampers.

i have alot of experience with ek4 and eg6 rally cars, pm me if you want any more info.

might be able to help with a second hand Kaaz diff too
Click to expand...

Why would you not toe out the rear for circuit use ?
 
Disconnecting the front swaybar would be good I guess, if you adjust your front suspension to it. If you really don't want to do that, get a bigger swaybar in the rear. Bigger in front means more understeer, bigger in the rear means more oversteer. Crude, but short and mostly right explanation I think. Not complete but have a search if you want to know all about swaybars. Also get the LSD.

By the way, if you want to quote multiple people in 1 post, you can click the "multi" button in the posts that you want to quote. Then click "reply" left under the topic and you'll have all quoted posts in 1 reply :nice: Easier for you and less of a mess in the topic :)
 
I think the main question that should be asked is if you are planning on using it more on trackdays or rallies? It's not going be great at both so best focus on the usage that is more important/frequent, as what is best for gravel is not best for track as you are probably well aware.

This of course unless you have a big pot of spare cash to splash out on seperate setups and have the time to change the car between them...
 
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