K20/b18
- Thread starter razza
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689R
gentleman of hyper
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tbh i was like that too. didnt like the delivery in standard ep3/dc5 etc, but its so different. its pretty hard to describe aha.
when your in a stripped EG with a loud exhaust n 250bhpz from the kswap you really dont notice the power delivery, just the WOAH **** factor hahaah.
the only other real downside to the kswap in this country is how low the sump sits.
when your in a stripped EG with a loud exhaust n 250bhpz from the kswap you really dont notice the power delivery, just the WOAH **** factor hahaah.
the only other real downside to the kswap in this country is how low the sump sits.
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Sweet, yeah i can imagine mate, Must be incredible. I mean watching Mikes around the track, cor it flew!
689R
gentleman of hyper
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See this is just a completly uneducated and quite frankly stupid post. Have you ever driven a stock ITR? Doesnt quite have the 'beastly' change over note you are describing.
Pahh.
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B20 all the way
Dunx
Dunx
i've never been in a standard k20 conversion so i dont know about the power delivery in one of them, but in mine with the ips k2's, the vtec ideal changeover is around 5800 rpm.......mine just seems like a b series gone mental.
and as for the k20 sounding tame....well i've ran my b18c with no rear box and in vtec it's yeah it's loud, too loud. I tried the same (with the same centre section) once i had the k20 fitted, and all i can say about the noise is it actually makes you feel physically sick, makes passengers beg you to stop etc, and can still be heard over 5 miles away.
k20 sounds tame....hahahahahahahahahaha
i wish someone would take up my offer of going for a spin in my car to report back.
all i can say is, if you are advising people to go built b series over a decent k20 swap....then you've obviously never been in one.
Did i mention its now miles better on fuel and will only cost about a grand to replace if it blows up too?
and as for the k20 sounding tame....well i've ran my b18c with no rear box and in vtec it's yeah it's loud, too loud. I tried the same (with the same centre section) once i had the k20 fitted, and all i can say about the noise is it actually makes you feel physically sick, makes passengers beg you to stop etc, and can still be heard over 5 miles away.
k20 sounds tame....hahahahahahahahahaha
i wish someone would take up my offer of going for a spin in my car to report back.
all i can say is, if you are advising people to go built b series over a decent k20 swap....then you've obviously never been in one.
Did i mention its now miles better on fuel and will only cost about a grand to replace if it blows up too?
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That's a not so complete answer to make a fair comparison. True, a B18C is cheaper. But let's start with what you will get back for a B16b. Lets say 1700 just for ease. Leaves you with:
600-700 for a B18 (including al materials to install the B18 and give it a new belt etc)
3300 for a K20
BUT this is what you get with your K20 swap and not with the B18:
- After market manifold
- After market air intake
- After market engine mounts (not only different shape but also stiffer and new
- After market ECU (IIRC Emerald for that money)
- 6 speed gearbox
Besides the 6speed, if you take all those things together they add up, the difference between a K20 and a B18 is not that much. Still a lot of money and worth a good night of sleep to think it over, but the difference is imho not 3k.
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JT,
But most people have I/H/E on their B16B, My complete B18 conversion cost me a total of £550, I already bought I/H/E for the B16B so just transferred over to B18.
The difference between a K20 and B18C swap is a huge amount of money and alot more hassle. Not saying its not worth the hassle as i dont know, im just saying there is a big difference is price/hassle, enough to seriously conciser the 2 options.
But most people have I/H/E on their B16B, My complete B18 conversion cost me a total of £550, I already bought I/H/E for the B16B so just transferred over to B18.
The difference between a K20 and B18C swap is a huge amount of money and alot more hassle. Not saying its not worth the hassle as i dont know, im just saying there is a big difference is price/hassle, enough to seriously conciser the 2 options.
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Yes, as I said, I agree with you that it still is a lot of extra money and that is has to be thought over 
But still, most people do not take into account what I just said and I think the comparison is not fair then. Wether it is the right swap for someone is dependent on that person in terms of available money, space to work in, experience with working on cars, motivation to do it all and other things, like wether you want to keep the mods you were talking about or sell them and put them in the swap.
It's a very personal thing, I just felt I should point out that it is not only the K20 you have extra if you do that swap
But still, most people do not take into account what I just said and I think the comparison is not fair then. Wether it is the right swap for someone is dependent on that person in terms of available money, space to work in, experience with working on cars, motivation to do it all and other things, like wether you want to keep the mods you were talking about or sell them and put them in the swap. It's a very personal thing, I just felt I should point out that it is not only the K20 you have extra if you do that swap
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Yes, as I said, I agree with you that it still is a lot of extra money and that is has to be thought over But still, most people do not take into account what I just said and I think the comparison is not fair then. Wether it is the right swap for someone is dependent on that person in terms of available money, space to work in, experience with working on cars, motivation to do it all and other things, like wether you want to keep the mods you were talking about or sell them and put them in the swap.
It's a very personal thing, I just felt I should point out that it is not only the K20 you have extra if you do that swap
But still, most people do not take into account what I just said and I think the comparison is not fair then. Wether it is the right swap for someone is dependent on that person in terms of available money, space to work in, experience with working on cars, motivation to do it all and other things, like wether you want to keep the mods you were talking about or sell them and put them in the swap. It's a very personal thing, I just felt I should point out that it is not only the K20 you have extra if you do that swap
Mine's cost about 4k after getting the money back for the old bits. Thats with a spoon LSD, cams, RBC, clutch, fly, DTR/SSR header, Kpro, should be 250+bhp tuned. Could still do with a few parts like a nice exhaust, better intake setup, nice radiator, if i wanted air con and p/s i would need to spend to do that, so i could spend quite a bit more for a 'finished' project. But, as it is, it's on the road, street tuned by myself, embarrasing new Focus RS's, Evo's and subaru's on a daily basis, and getting better mpg than any b series i've ever driven.
The great thing about doing the kswap in an ek9 or dc2r is that you get decent money back for your old bits turning a 6k swap into a 4k swap, then there's the money you save every mile u drive it.
Before i decided to do a kwap, i'd never been out in one, but liked the idea of the benefits. i thought i was taking quite a risk spending all that for such a 'small' gain. Even when i was buying the parts i wasnt sure i was doing the right thing. Now that i have the car done, it's better than i'd hoped.
I've NEVER seen anyone regret a k swap, except for people that dont get round to finishing the car and sell or break it before its done (i nearly was one of these people) I've seen LOTS of people regret spending a fortune building a b series though.
The great thing about doing the kswap in an ek9 or dc2r is that you get decent money back for your old bits turning a 6k swap into a 4k swap, then there's the money you save every mile u drive it.
Before i decided to do a kwap, i'd never been out in one, but liked the idea of the benefits. i thought i was taking quite a risk spending all that for such a 'small' gain. Even when i was buying the parts i wasnt sure i was doing the right thing. Now that i have the car done, it's better than i'd hoped.
I've NEVER seen anyone regret a k swap, except for people that dont get round to finishing the car and sell or break it before its done (i nearly was one of these people) I've seen LOTS of people regret spending a fortune building a b series though.
Barryl85
Barry L 85
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K-series is over rated - even if it is the best swap and i'd still rather have it than a B18 but i'd also rather have less hassle.
Nobody ever thinks about the resale value of the car either, things can force the sale of a car and you will never make anywhere near your money back on a car with a special k.
And i dont know how many times i have to say this, its not about what engine you have, its how much money you have.
EK9 with stock k20 vs EK9 with B18c with £2-3k of engine work (prob still cheaper than full K swap) B18c will be the winner.
Let me ask one more thing - why do people bang on about the reliability of the K-Series - there is no way its more reliable than a B-series. The amount of stories i've heard about spun shells in a K is unreal and also gearbox troubles & syncros going bad even with low mileage.
Nobody ever thinks about the resale value of the car either, things can force the sale of a car and you will never make anywhere near your money back on a car with a special k.
And i dont know how many times i have to say this, its not about what engine you have, its how much money you have.
EK9 with stock k20 vs EK9 with B18c with £2-3k of engine work (prob still cheaper than full K swap) B18c will be the winner.
Let me ask one more thing - why do people bang on about the reliability of the K-Series - there is no way its more reliable than a B-series. The amount of stories i've heard about spun shells in a K is unreal and also gearbox troubles & syncros going bad even with low mileage.
egshane
B18C ek9
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are there any tuning companys that specialise in the b18c6 did spoons ek9 have a b18 before the k20 ?
im keeping close eye on this thread as im thinking about one of these in the near future, i feel like b18 would be the most SENSIBLE and best option and k20a at a later date when the car has almost lost all value!
im keeping close eye on this thread as im thinking about one of these in the near future, i feel like b18 would be the most SENSIBLE and best option and k20a at a later date when the car has almost lost all value!
if you buy secondhand parts, and keep an eye out for good deals on parts you cant get secondand there's no reason why you would lose money, i would expect to be able to get all of my money back if i needed to and not lose too much if i sold it as a full car.
Yes with a 2-3000 budget a b will be faster, but when thats still not fast enough and you spend a couple more grand the k swap car will be gaining good bhp where you will be spending a lot on the b trying to squeeze a few more hp.
so now you are 4-5k into your b or k series build and have a good 250hp. where do you go from here with your high comp built b? if you have a k you have many choices, you can spend a few more grand doing an n/a high revving possibly stroked build, you can buy a $2500 2.4 botton end from the states, use it with your current cams/boltons and make a nice low stress 300whp n/a on a reasonable 12.5 compression........ you could decide to supercharge. bolt on rotrex kit on your standard k20 with cams/na boltons will see you in the 350-400hp range, if you had previously gone with the $2500 bottom end 12.5:1 pistons you're looking at 500hp, or you might decide to sell a lot of your n/a bits and get a turbo kit since you already have k-pro and will get good money back for your old swap manifold cams etc, maybe change the rods and pistons and shoot for 600hp.
things have moved on people, and the quicker you realise the less you will spend being slower
Yes with a 2-3000 budget a b will be faster, but when thats still not fast enough and you spend a couple more grand the k swap car will be gaining good bhp where you will be spending a lot on the b trying to squeeze a few more hp.
so now you are 4-5k into your b or k series build and have a good 250hp. where do you go from here with your high comp built b? if you have a k you have many choices, you can spend a few more grand doing an n/a high revving possibly stroked build, you can buy a $2500 2.4 botton end from the states, use it with your current cams/boltons and make a nice low stress 300whp n/a on a reasonable 12.5 compression........ you could decide to supercharge. bolt on rotrex kit on your standard k20 with cams/na boltons will see you in the 350-400hp range, if you had previously gone with the $2500 bottom end 12.5:1 pistons you're looking at 500hp, or you might decide to sell a lot of your n/a bits and get a turbo kit since you already have k-pro and will get good money back for your old swap manifold cams etc, maybe change the rods and pistons and shoot for 600hp.
things have moved on people, and the quicker you realise the less you will spend being slower
Barryl85
Barry L 85
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You are joking right?
Is it a DC2 you have?
Ok..... i think it is - so i wont even guess how much your car is worth or how much you spent on the K-swap but i'll generalise.
If your DC2 is worth around 4-5k stock in todays second hand market and you have spent 4-5k on K-Swap - to get any of your money back you would have to get at least 8k (and thats only if you paid around 4k for the car in the first place) for the DC2 minimum.
Cant see anyone buying a DC2 for that price thats been heavily modified. Theres DC5's under 8k now !!
And if its an EK or an EG (not EK9) you wouldnt get anywhere near any of your money back.
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@eg6-b18c6.... You say you reach 250BHP and where do you go from there with the B series? Well you can also stroke to a 2.2 if you wanted to keep N/A and im sure you could get very close 300BHP still N/A.
Also you say you can make the K forced induction. Well you could also do the same with B series. You could whack a big turbo on it with low compression pistons/forged rods/head bolts etc etc and get pretty much what ever power you want(within reason obviously).
The K will always have a slight edge, that is all. However i do like the idea of a fairly basic K set up reaching around 240BHP without having to build the engine up.
Also you say you can make the K forced induction. Well you could also do the same with B series. You could whack a big turbo on it with low compression pistons/forged rods/head bolts etc etc and get pretty much what ever power you want(within reason obviously).
The K will always have a slight edge, that is all. However i do like the idea of a fairly basic K set up reaching around 240BHP without having to build the engine up.
my car is a bad example because due to getting a good payout for some minor rear end damage did to me it actually only owes me about 6k total, and is a 98spec jdm with a kswap and some quality parts.....i don't think 8k is beyond the realms of possibility for the full car, i KNOW i can break my car for more than 8k and 9k wouldnt be unrealistic .....i cant really be arsed listing all my parts and expected prices but could probably give a good outline if you really need it. so i'll go with a theoretical example for you if you like.
JDM, 96 spec ITR, or UK ITR pick up a fairly decent early one for say £3700, i sold a fairly decent n plate one about 18 months ago for £3350 but i dont want you to think i'm trying to move the figures about to suit this exercise.
sell all the bits you dont need for £2000 (i think i got about £2400 for all my bits but again, £2000 i feel is a realistic obtainable figure)
So at the moment i'm £1700 in. i got nearly all of my parts as a deal on an abandoned project, k20a2, dtr header, with the new spoon lsd, clutch, fly, mounts, fuel system, kpro, ips k2 cams, most the daft little bits like clutch line etc. i paid £5400 iirc(these days it would have been at least £500 cheaper on the engine alone but i wont count that, i needed to a shifter mount kit (£70 off tegiwa i think) ep3-r shafts ( i paid £120) and a wiring conversion harness (maybe £150 ish)
so 1700+5400+70+120+150= £7440, thats with a kpro, cams, spoon lsd, rbc.....that car wouldn't be worth far off what you've spent, and if you broke it then you should get all your money back off your engine and conversion parts, and sell your rolling shell itr for £1700 or break it for about the same.......i really don't know where you're coming from??? how much would a b series that you spent £3-5k on be worth when you come to sell it like??
and as for nobody will pay 8k for a dc2 because you can get a dc5 for that price, does that mean you'll never get more that £3.5k for an ek9 because you can get an ep3 that cheap? hahahaha.
JDM, 96 spec ITR, or UK ITR pick up a fairly decent early one for say £3700, i sold a fairly decent n plate one about 18 months ago for £3350 but i dont want you to think i'm trying to move the figures about to suit this exercise.
sell all the bits you dont need for £2000 (i think i got about £2400 for all my bits but again, £2000 i feel is a realistic obtainable figure)
So at the moment i'm £1700 in. i got nearly all of my parts as a deal on an abandoned project, k20a2, dtr header, with the new spoon lsd, clutch, fly, mounts, fuel system, kpro, ips k2 cams, most the daft little bits like clutch line etc. i paid £5400 iirc(these days it would have been at least £500 cheaper on the engine alone but i wont count that, i needed to a shifter mount kit (£70 off tegiwa i think) ep3-r shafts ( i paid £120) and a wiring conversion harness (maybe £150 ish)
so 1700+5400+70+120+150= £7440, thats with a kpro, cams, spoon lsd, rbc.....that car wouldn't be worth far off what you've spent, and if you broke it then you should get all your money back off your engine and conversion parts, and sell your rolling shell itr for £1700 or break it for about the same.......i really don't know where you're coming from??? how much would a b series that you spent £3-5k on be worth when you come to sell it like??
and as for nobody will pay 8k for a dc2 because you can get a dc5 for that price, does that mean you'll never get more that £3.5k for an ek9 because you can get an ep3 that cheap? hahahaha.
Barryl85
Barry L 85
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Are you actually havin a laugh mate.
Nearly all DC5's are more expensive in todays market than DC2's - thats what i was reffering to - and the DC5 is a great JDM car with all the JDM goodies
Unlike the UK EP3 (which is more like the VTi of the EP3 world) which is why the JDM EP3's (real type-r) are probably still more expensive than EK9's.
Who would pay 8k for someones chopped up k20 DC2 when they could buy a mint stock DC5 for slight bit more. And add in how rare the DC5 is.
If someone was in the market for a DC2 they are prob more inclined to spend around 6k on a Stock unmolested example.