b18c running lean (dyno pic added)


Jimbo said:
tell thats to Bisimoto ;) they get near enough 18 BHP with one of there manifolds. don't forget this guy might have been on a generous dyno :)
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....bisi mani's rocks! :nice: hope to know of this feeling myself here in a few weeks.
 
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...great read!

I have heard of I/H/M running Honda's lean on oem ecm's.

There are many programmable ecm's on the market, I use Hondata S300 mainly for the tuners that I use, they prefer them. Not that they are the best or worst...Hondata's are just easy and proven. I love both of mine. ;)
[I need a mounting bracket/box for that large hondata ecm...anyone?]

deb1991 said:
i purchased the engine from a scrapyard out of a itr with the ecu...
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...crazy cool! can you tell us more please? condition of that car and yard?
You have a great engine by the looks of it, and to take it from the yard is a crazy story, you should document it as best as you can. lol make a movie out of it. lol

I would not drive that around running lean at all, get-er tuned!
And what is the deal with bhp? I hate to do math and I am sure everyone else does too, just do whp everyone?
 
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im waiting for my mate to hook his wideband in my car and we can see the afr, i checked my spark plugs, now i understand if the car is running lean the spark plugs will be white, this was not the case for me. the color was brownish. any input.
 
deb1991 said:
im waiting for my mate to hook his wideband in my car and we can see the afr, i checked my spark plugs, now i understand if the car is running lean the spark plugs will be white, this was not the case for me. the color was brownish. any input.
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strange

black plugs over fueling/rich

white/light grey plugs under fueling/lean

brown plugs good mixture

if you see tiny shiny silver specks this is evidence of a slight detonation problem/running lean
 
atm nope, waiting for my mechanic to get back so he can hook up the wideband, turned out before the dyno session there was a pipe on the back of the intake manifold that had no vacumm going to it, so in turn a vacumm leak, also the exhaust was slightly blowing, this may have caused it to run lean, also the standard air box is back on as someone is borrowing my aem.
 
deb1991 said:
atm nope, waiting for my mechanic to get back so he can hook up the wideband, turned out before the dyno session there was a pipe on the back of the intake manifold that had no vacumm going to it, so in turn a vacumm leak, also the exhaust was slightly blowing, this may have caused it to run lean, also the standard air box is back on as someone is borrowing my aem.
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Cool, I think I have a faulty injector/s ... I was advised to start the car and remove the wiring (clip) from the injector individually, I noticed when I removed the first one it didnt make much difference, however when I removed the others the car felt as if it wanted to cut out. So i'm either going to have my injectors cleaned or try some working ones first to be sure.
 
VAFC << 'Chipped' ECU (i.e. Hondata, Crome, Uberdata, Neptune, etc) / Standalone ECU because a VAFC is only a piggyback; it only cheats the ECU by sending out a higher MAP sensor signal, thereby altering the OEM's ECU load response and letting the ECU hit pre-programmed cells that have greater injector duty cycles than before. Problem is, your OEM fuel map does not have injector duty cycles above 70% on 7500rpm below. In short, no matter what MAP sensor signal the VAFC throws at the OEM ECU, there is a chance that perfect AFRs won't be achieved. That's why some people claim that these VAFCs lack resolution but in reality they can only do so much 'cheating' to begin with. Other people can counter this with hardware changes (injectors, pumps, fprs, etc) but sometimes (though often not, as long as your tuner knows what he's doing) idle quality and fuel economy suffer a bit though not by much. So continue as per your plan, have a wideband hooked up and do readouts then have your tuner judge if you can go VAFC or something else. That way, you won't be spending on something that you'll just be disappointed later on.


Cool, I think I have a faulty injector/s ... I was advised to start the car and remove the wiring (clip) from the injector individually, I noticed when I removed the first one it didnt make much difference, however when I removed the others the car felt as if it wanted to cut out. So i'm either going to have my injectors cleaned or try some working ones first to be sure.

A cave-man style of what I want to call 'waking up' stuck injectors is by sending short bursts of direct 12V on their socket. Just give it some short bursts until you hear the injectors mechanical 'click' for every burst of 12V. I do this by removing the sockets and carefully run 2 wires from an external 12V battery to an injector socket I made with one of the wires open. Sliding the 2 sides of the open wire gives it the 'burst' I'm talking about. Just make sure there is no fuel on the rail / around the intake manifold. If this doesn't work, then you can take the injectors to a professional service center. It's still always worth a try. I've had alot of injectors from the scrapyard that were deemed dead but woke up with this technique that was used by cavemen...
 
Chicas said:
VAFC << 'Chipped' ECU (i.e. Hondata, Crome, Uberdata, Neptune, etc) / Standalone ECU because a VAFC is only a piggyback; it only cheats the ECU by sending out a higher MAP sensor signal, thereby altering the OEM's ECU load response and letting the ECU hit pre-programmed cells that have greater injector duty cycles than before. Problem is, your OEM fuel map does not have injector duty cycles above 70% on 7500rpm below. In short, no matter what MAP sensor signal the VAFC throws at the OEM ECU, there is a chance that perfect AFRs won't be achieved. That's why some people claim that these VAFCs lack resolution but in reality they can only do so much 'cheating' to begin with. Other people can counter this with hardware changes (injectors, pumps, fprs, etc) but sometimes (though often not, as long as your tuner knows what he's doing) idle quality and fuel economy suffer a bit though not by much. So continue as per your plan, have a wideband hooked up and do readouts then have your tuner judge if you can go VAFC or something else. That way, you won't be spending on something that you'll just be disappointed later on.


Cool, I think I have a faulty injector/s ... I was advised to start the car and remove the wiring (clip) from the injector individually, I noticed when I removed the first one it didnt make much difference, however when I removed the others the car felt as if it wanted to cut out. So i'm either going to have my injectors cleaned or try some working ones first to be sure.

A cave-man style of what I want to call 'waking up' stuck injectors is by sending short bursts of direct 12V on their socket. Just give it some short bursts until you hear the injectors mechanical 'click' for every burst of 12V. I do this by removing the sockets and carefully run 2 wires from an external 12V battery to an injector socket I made with one of the wires open. Sliding the 2 sides of the open wire gives it the 'burst' I'm talking about. Just make sure there is no fuel on the rail / around the intake manifold. If this doesn't work, then you can take the injectors to a professional service center. It's still always worth a try. I've had alot of injectors from the scrapyard that were deemed dead but woke up with this technique that was used by cavemen...
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Thanks for the reply :nice:

I don't have the equipment to use this method, I think I'm going to get them re-conditioned I just hope it solves the problem
 
wow, if that is standard, then mine must be ... built together using monkeys :p

same roller too, b18c with exhaust manifold, 2.5" exhaust, spoon ecu

e31d9107.jpg
 
lance said:
wow, if that is standard, then mine must be ... built together using monkeys :p

same roller too, b18c with exhaust manifold, 2.5" exhaust, spoon ecu

e31d9107.jpg
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is yours a b18c-r?
As far as i know the engine is standard, im quite shocked that it made considerably more power than another b18c-r
 
the lbft is more or less the same as yours :?

ive been told its a CR, but some have said its not, am still pretty confused if it is or not lol. ctrsame here who has a cr pulled 199 with more or less the same stuff. skunk2 intake manifold.
 
lance said:
the lbft is more or less the same as yours :?

ive been told its a CR, but some have said its not, am still pretty confused if it is or not lol. ctrsame here who has a cr pulled 199 with more or less the same stuff. skunk2 intake manifold.
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Peak torque may be similar but your engine isn't holding the torque curve like his at higher rpm's, at 8000rpm your engine is making 125torque whilst the OP's engine is making around 140 torque so given that horsepower is torque multiplied by rpm then divided by 5252 you can see why he has the higher bhp figure.
 
im struggling to see how my "internally standard" b18c engine has made much more torque than another b18, id say the dyno is incorrect, but lance has used the same dyno. hmm could it be the rmf replica manifold producing loads more torque high in the rev range??
 
deb1991 said:
im struggling to see how my "internally standard" b18c engine has made much more torque than another b18, id say the dyno is incorrect, but lance has used the same dyno. hmm could it be the rmf replica manifold producing loads more torque high in the rev range??
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whats the issue? swap out the manifold to oem and look at the results, it maybe the RMF rep mani.
 
car booked in with romain for a tune on ectune, hes told me to not "ragg" it on the way down as its like 200 miles away. going to be 1 boring journey down but one fun journey back up.

looks like no more running lean for me!
 
Have him run it on stock ecu(if possible) first be interesting to see the difference between readings of TDI North's dyno and the Dyno Dynamics
 
i think he will do a run first any way, but i dont know if romain will want to as the car is running lean?

im guessing it will be around 200bhp, any thing less than that = tdi north dyno are way to inaccurate!
 
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