Nurburgring - DN10 - EK9

[jay_k]

So was looking forward to this massively, as I took my brothers stock EK9 to the ring last year and loved being able to get the most out of the car.

This time we took our Civic Cup EK9 with a now a B18C6 installed.

Day one, As this was the first time were using Kumho V70As hard compound and RC6 pads (no ABS), along with a new ride height and GEO, we went out for sighting laps first thing in the morning.

First problem, as we had bought the camber on the rear upto 2deg, and fitted 205s rather than 195s, the tyre was was catching the inner arch lip bad. So we got the hacksaw out and a hammer and sorted it out in the pitlane. Luckily some tool crashed as soon as the track went green, so we lost no track time.

Day one we thought we'd use to get confidence in the car, tyres, etc. Went out again, and realised just how bumpy the ring is, going down into the foxhole was incredibly bumpy and unsettling the car, in the braking zone of the foxhole (exit uphill) the back end was getting light and drifting to the right. The car was so bumpy it was scary, the back over crest was going so light. Oversteer was an issue.

So we softened all dampers as much ad we could and went back out, this made a difference but the light back end was still not inspiring confidence. So we built we had a break, and go back in the car, using day 1 as a confidence builder we thought was good, get used to the car how it feels etc, downside was there wasn't much track time as people kept crashing!

However we got a good feeling for the brakes, tyres and setup, the setup wasn't great for the ring, the spring rates were far to hard, after all its a circuit car, the Geo was ok however the back end should have been abit lower.

This is the only video I had as the clutch failed first thing on the second day, had to limp back to pits. Was so gutted going round in the morning for Lap one and realising i cant get 4th, or anything but 5th, i felt like crying as i knew it was game over - Tried renting a car for the rest of the day but everywhere was fully booked.

Here is the video, i found I was pressing harder in the stock EK9 i took last year, as i was much more confident in that then this. However i think once i have confidence in this EK9, it would be much faster. I had a little play with the Megane R26R thing in this video, however when he decided to let me past there was a massive straight so i didn't go past as i was limited to 120mph, (forgot to take the speed limiter of the JDM ECU ) - But i wish i had gone past because i was much faster through the twisties.

Anyways the car is up for sale as im looking at a DC5 race car however if it doesn't sell i'll keep it, setup adjustments and softer spring rates will be made and we will be back. Its still the best track in the world imo, and scary in a car like this, but that's what gets you on that edge

EK9 Ring Lap: http://youtu.be/H4hO4EsKEuM

Jay

 

[Kipper]

Interesting read and it's a shame the car just wasn't how you were expecting, but this is living proof that a racecar setup for shorter flat circuits doesn't necessarily work on the ring.

I found I could push my relatively stock DC2 hard being on stock geo, springs and dampers, it felt safe at high speed sections.

How were the RC6's with no ABS? I run endless circuit pads with no ABS and I found you had to modulate the brakes quite gently at times.

I hope you have better luck with it in the future . I bet you had a decent experience all the same!

 

[jay_k]

Interesting read and it's a shame the car just wasn't how you were expecting, but this is living proof that a racecar setup for shorter flat circuits doesn't necessarily work on the ring.

I found I could push my relatively stock DC2 hard being on stock geo, springs and dampers, it felt safe at high speed sections.

How were the RC6's with no ABS? I run endless circuit pads with no ABS and I found you had to modulate the brakes quite gently at times.

I hope you have better luck with it in the future . I bet you had a decent experience all the same!

I tried to set it up "safe", make it more understeer then snap oversteer, raised the ride height, i had corner weight setup looking very good it was balanced in the bends and turning in, but its just building that confidence in the car, day 2 would have made a huge difference.

RC6 pads were good, stopped the car well, on the first few sighting laps i tried to find where the lock up point would be once the tyres were hot. I found they were quite progressive, but my style is quite progressive and smooth on the brakes rather than stamping on them, to prevent unsettling the car.

Yeah the experience was good, the car is having a new clutch, oil cooler, check over, and new GEO setup for Donington Park, oh and the JDM speed limiter removed haha.

Jay

 

[freewilly]

what spring rates are you running?
i've just installed Feels Aragosta's with swift springs 18F and 14 R.

MYGOD are they stiff..

p.s. why don't you rev match when you down shift?

 

[jay_k]

Not sure what the rates are, BC built 20 sets of N1s for SWmotorsports and thats whats on the car. They are great of circuit.

I did on a few but next to the acclerator where the cage is welded there is a big block and my foot catches on it sometimes. Trying to get a boss extender so i can extend my legs as i have shorter arms.

I share the car with my friend who is taller, and fits in an XL seat, i have to use foam pads to hold me in, i can fit snug in a medium if not a small.

 

[si8pny]

Ah shame about the car troubles! Ill be doing a trackday there next year!

Does this civic have any ARB's?

 

[jesse888]

Good to see/hear my old engine back at the ring! Sounds pretty sweet aswell!
See what you mean about the spring rates. I had 10k f and 8r last year and felt like I needed more spring, like 14-16k I had in mind. Glad I didn't now.
Although the new cars got softer 8f and 5r.

 

[stevenEK9]

the problem is with all the coilovers people buy for jap cars is there is only a main spring - no helper

the helper opens up on the rebound stroke and allows the wheel to remain on the ground aiding traction

without that there you basically have suspension which only operates under compression which is useless on anything other than a nice smooth track


again it comes down to setup as the above is not always true, my old EK9 ran 2 way race Tein N1's on 22k front and 20k rear springs, not once did i have a sniff of oversteer, you could chuck the car about like nothing else and it would take it - this was around the ring btw

the Ring isn't scary in a FWD car with the right setup, certain adjustments with the current springs and it would be fine

 

[jesse888]

Seen some of your ring videos, about 20 times each lol
Interesting what you say about the helper springs and the setup. You mean the alignment?

 

[stevenEK9]

Seen some of your ring videos, about 20 times each lol
Interesting what you say about the helper springs and the setup. You mean the alignment?

alignment is pretty much the last step - the right camber will give you the maximum available grip from your tyres/setup, the right toe will alter straight line stability (especially high speed) and turn in feel

to get the car balanced it's more about the right balance of spring rates and getting the balance of weight front to rear right

the 1 good thing i miss about jap style coilovers is how easy it is to corner weight the car as you can just adjust the preload of the spring on each corner whilst compensating for that with a separate ride height adjustment etc

just watched some of the vid and doesn't look too bad, although alot of corners you could have taken in a higher gear as you seem to be having to hold the car on the limiter when you could be nailing the throttle come the apex and carrying alot more speed

trial and error really, DC5 will always be quicker round there - the ring requires torque due to the hills, something a B series will always struggle with

 

[jay_k]

Ah shame about the car troubles! Ill be doing a trackday there next year!

Does this civic have any ARB's?

Doesn't say it in Shaun's spec, all i know is there powder coated blue lol.

 

[jay_k]

Good to see/hear my old engine back at the ring! Sounds pretty sweet aswell!
See what you mean about the spring rates. I had 10k f and 8r last year and felt like I needed more spring, like 14-16k I had in mind. Glad I didn't now.
Although the new cars got softer 8f and 5r.

Engine felt good mate, didn't even get time to test it before we went but never had a single problem with this, its a strong motor

You can see me and my passenger moving up and down over the bumps none stop, the suspension is not absorbing the bumps in anyway.

 

[jay_k]

the problem is with all the coilovers people buy for jap cars is there is only a main spring - no helper

the helper opens up on the rebound stroke and allows the wheel to remain on the ground aiding traction

without that there you basically have suspension which only operates under compression which is useless on anything other than a nice smooth track


again it comes down to setup as the above is not always true, my old EK9 ran 2 way race Tein N1's on 22k front and 20k rear springs, not once did i have a sniff of oversteer, you could chuck the car about like nothing else and it would take it - this was around the ring btw

the Ring isn't scary in a FWD car with the right setup, certain adjustments with the current springs and it would be fine

This has N1+ with custom springs (don't know the rates) but where clearly built for civic cup circuit racing.

My brothers stock EK9 was flying round there i was bang on 9 with a busted headgasket. I just got the setup wrong on this EK9 for the ring. Usually prefer a looser backend, but this one felt snappy.

Donington Park - Confidence here is seen just chuck the car in www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTMjIS8WL04

One of my Stock EK9 ring lap's -
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdkrhOWXslw


Just looking forward to getting it to Donington again next month.

 

[jay_k]

the 1 good thing i miss about jap style coilovers is how easy it is to corner weight the car as you can just adjust the preload of the spring on each corner whilst compensating for that with a separate ride height adjustment etc

just watched some of the vid and doesn't look too bad, although alot of corners you could have taken in a higher gear as you seem to be having to hold the car on the limiter when you could be nailing the throttle come the apex and carrying alot more speed

trial and error really, DC5 will always be quicker round there - the ring requires torque due to the hills, something a B series will always struggle with

Yeah i got the corner weight LF/RR 49.98 RF/LR 50.00.

Yeah that was the problem, confidence was not there to go into the bend at higher speeds, as compared to my stock lap where i was flat out. I think day two may have been better as this was mid day 1.

Yeah DC5 race car is on the list if the EK9 sells, i not trying to hard to sell it though as still love the fun factor. Other options are go back to E46 M3, DC5, or use for Donington and wait for next summer to get my special toy

 

[HondaHonk]

Interesting read and like your video. gutted for ye lad with all the troubles.

 

[jay_k]

A few pics.