Brakes are frying my brain :S


V-TEC ABUSER

V-TEC ABUSER

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Jan 9, 2010
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Hi guys, I need help.
Basically I've been looking through different threads regarding brake set-ups but they have totally fried my brain.

I'm running willwood(can't remember my caliper) 310/32(size of disc) and to be honest they have never been any good. No pedal feel, long travel etc etc, the company doing my engine work have told me that they don't fit properly and that I will only get 1/2 pads wear out of them. I'm fed up and want to change them.

By what to??

Standard ek9 are a no. I've used them before on track and suffer brake fade and general disappearance . But I don't really know what my options are.

My cars going to be running about 380-400bhp when I get it back, I drive it fast/hard plus track it so I need something that'll hold up. I'm also running 15" team dynamics pro race 1's

What are my options guys??? I'm thinking spoons would be best.?????

Help please to clear this up!!!

Thanks.
 
With that sort of power, don't **** about and get something proper, like the Brembo kit Steven had on his EK9. He got those under 15s.

They'll set you back a bit, but they'll be up to the job.
 
You need more than Spoon callipers with that sort of power.

You will struggle to get big enough callipers/ discs under 15 inch alloys. It can be done but high temperature of the brakes will be an issue if used seriously on track under 15"s.

300mm Discs with EP3 callipers will be better than most Willwood/ Spoon set ups.
 
If you use proper pads and fluid you won't get fade or a soft pedal, try ds3000 ferodo sand Castrol srf, bet you can't fade them
 
My wilwood kit is good nothing wrong with it , out brakes most things on race day, with race pads . The only way to get a good pedal is to get a pedal box and get rid of yr servo brakes . Or try a brembo kit but yr still get a spongy pedal . This yr I'am trying no abs and taken all oem brake lines out with a rear bias valve .
 
High temperature fluid, race pads and wilwood midilite calipers, aluminium calipers get rid of heat quicker too
 
OP, try some different setups on this: Black Art Dynamics - Threshold Braking Bias Calculator (Honda)

Set the power to 350-400, the speeds between 120-60 (between the default 70 and 0 the power won't make much difference because there's only so fast a FWD can accelerate from low speed).

Try some of the different setups and get the temperatures down to around the 600° mark.

Based on that, the 300mm EP3/ATR brakes up front and 260mm rear brakes, with DS2500 all round should be up to the job.
 
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Thanks guys.
Kozy-when I'm back from work I'll try what you've said.

I'm getting away from wilwood and any other generic caliper I hope. Plus from standard ek9. I wouldn't trust them. It might be my short term fix tho.

The reason I was thinking spoon is basically they have been designed on the honda. They will work properly with the master cylinder etc. I'm used to having amazing brakes, but these wilwoods have been poor from the outset, I even struggled getting a pedal, at first I had to PUMP the pedal :O

They have been bled numerous times but the fit is just poor.

These brembo's that have been mentioned sound appealing. Who had them??? I'll pm them get info etc.

Thanks so far :)
 
StevenEK9 had the Brembo's.

Do you know what size pistons are in your Wilwoods?

With your sort of power, absorbing and dissipating heat is the big concern. For that, the size of the discs is key, the caliper is not important. You can have nice blingy calipers but if you're trying to put a large amount of energy into a small amount of metal, it's going to heat up and there's nothing you can do about that.

Not sure what rear brakes you have, but I'm going to assume probably stock EK4 240mm rears? Upgrading the rears and getting them to do more work takes strain off the fronts and evens out the temperature distribution, which allows you to use smaller, cheaper front brakes, such as the OEM 300mm assemblies.
 
Right then Kozy. The area for the pistons in my calipers is 4.80. Does that mean anything?? Dunno if that is each or for all 4. They are the superlite calipers.

I'll have to get in touch with steveEk9.
The other option (which I don't like is this.

The hats for my brakes is fouling the side of the pad. Us as the pad wears down the caliper then hits the hat, so I'm only using half the pads then have to change them.
The company doing my car have said they can machine the hats down to 'fit' but when I'm using my car on track it seems iffy taking material away from the hat.
 
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I have standard ek9 rear brakes. But the car was a 1.4 before.

I just need this issue sorted so I car get tracking again :)
 
Yes. I've changed that over and I've got a brake stopper as well.

What do people think to machining the hats?? It's a bit risky isn't it to be taking material away from them?? Especially so close to the disc??!!
 
What pads have you been using on track to come to the conclusion that ek9 ones are ****?
I used to lock 888's easily with just a pad change on my ek9.
 
Do you have any pics of your brake setup? Just so I can see what they want to machine off.
Sounds to me your brakes will work if you use the whole pad.

Murray
 
Im in the same dilemma aswell, choosing a suitable upgrade for my turbo dc2. Was swaying towards ep3 brakes but heard negative feedback about them in dc2.

Kozy - Are ATR calipers suitable to run then with the above power? As I can get atr brakes new at a good price.
 
Irf, what power?
I run EP3 fronts on my boosted Crx without any problems. Have never faded either. Thats using ds2500. Stay away from Redstuff.
 
Murray said:
Irf, what power?
I run EP3 fronts on my boosted Crx without any problems. Have never faded either. Thats using ds2500. Stay away from Redstuff.
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Was referring to the power the OP is running on his. As my teg will be similar, heard the ep3 brakes wernt that good over on civiclife forum compared to the Atr setup was lacking feel. I know the atr calipers are quite a powerful setup on such a light chassis..realworld feedback would be great to help my decision between rhe two..
 
V-TEC ABUSER said:
Right then Kozy. The area for the pistons in my calipers is 4.80. Does that mean anything?? Dunno if that is each or for all 4. They are the superlite calipers.
Click to expand...

Yea that's massive and the wrong size for car, no wonder they feel crap. The standard piston area on the 282 is 3.94 and on the 262 is 3.54.

Getting a set of Wilwoods with smaller pistons and correct brackets would see you right. :nice:

EK9 rear brakes are good enough, have you got a disc prop valve or still on the original drum valve?
 
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irf said:
Kozy - Are ATR calipers suitable to run then with the above power? As I can get atr brakes new at a good price.
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Should be yes, certainly enough mass in the rotors which is what you need.

EP3 brakes are basically the 262mm caliper on a 300mm disc, they're actually marginally less powerful than the 282s which is perhaps where the bad press comes from, as most people expect a gain in brake force with bigger brakes, not a reduction. In truth, the reduction is a good thing as it adds a touch of rear bias which is beneficial.

The ATR calipers are a fair whack more powerful, which will feel better but the added front bias will do you no favours.
 
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