My B16a Dyno

[RagingAngel]

To be honest, i don't think the guys knows what he is doing. In Hong Kong there are only one or two good tuners and this was one of the better ones. I do not have a torque curve which is wierd. I will go again sometime soon though and speak to them about plotting the torque curve, correcting the A/F after I have installed the Apexi Filter. They did say the standard B16A airbox was a striction even with a K&N.

Thanks
Brian

Looks like I'll need to bring my crome gear back to Hong Kong and help the scene out a little...

I've always wondered about the local tuners...but I guess I got a better picture now....

 

[MFactory]

What tuner did you take it to? MAP or TR?

 

[EK4_SIR]

What tuner did you take it to? MAP or TR?

Hello MFactory, I heard about your stuff, are they a HK brand?
The place I went to is TR, I think you know about them right? There is another place called GTI Engineering, but they seem to be more involved in the european cars than B16's, though they say they can tune with Hondata (so does a dozen other companies).

If you were here, even better! There is a demand for "proven" results with tuning!
________
Vaporizer Volcano

 

[MFactory]

We are a US Company & Brand, but have a sales office in HK which is used to distribute our products throughout the pacific rim.

tbh, most of the wannabe-tuners in HK are just Salesman pushing their overpriced japanese parts and know jack all about performance parts, other than what gives them more profit. Give them something "real" to do and they need to pay a japanese tuner to fly over to do the job.

sure, TR have their own dyno and have their pictures taken playing around with their HKS piggyback rubbish for the "magazines", but that's about as far as it goes really. Get to know the local racers (there is actually a large group of "Big Tek" drivers that hang around Yuen Long and Fanling/Sheung Shui) and none of them go anywhere near MAP or TR. They do their own DIY mapping with Crome.

If you want some good "local" advice, give RagingAngel a pm

 

[EK4_SIR]

We are a US Company & Brand, but have a sales office in HK which is used to distribute our products throughout the pacific rim.

tbh, most of the wannabe-tuners in HK are just Salesman pushing their overpriced japanese parts and know jack all about performance parts, other than what gives them more profit. Give them something "real" to do and they need to pay a japanese tuner to fly over to do the job.

sure, TR have their own dyno and have their pictures taken playing around with their HKS piggyback rubbish for the "magazines", but that's about as far as it goes really. Get to know the local racers (there is actually a large group of "Big Tek" drivers that hang around Yuen Long and Fanling/Sheung Shui) and none of them go anywhere near MAP or TR. They do their own DIY mapping with Crome.

If you want some good "local" advice, give RagingAngel a pm

Man, it sure seems you have been here and experienced the HK scene. I am from the UK, London now working in HK. Comparing tuners in the UK and HK is not possible, the UK ones have xperience and know what they are talking about. HK ones as you said, as long as you have $$$$ then the world is yours. The tuning industry here is all about who has the money to modify their cars using all the most expensive japanese stuff, then as you said, ask Japanese tuners to come over to tune their ****. Some garages even just butt dyno tune your cars.
I will give RagingAngel a PM soon..hope he can give me a tip as to where a good tuner is. Thanks!
________
Nexium Lawyers

 

[civicspoon]

guys....i just dynoed my b16a2. i got 140whp. is it ok????does my engine healthy...mods done to the car...
k&n filter + guppy type ram + custome extractor + custom piping 2.23 + emanage blue

i was thinking with all the mods i've done should the whp higher???????

 

[civicspoon]

guys....i just dynoed my b16a2. i got 140whp. is it ok????does my engine healthy...mods done to the car...
k&n filter + guppy type ram + custome extractor + custom piping 2.23 + emanage blue

i was thinking with all the mods i've done should the whp higher???????

 

[moon*]

ehh.. 140whp should be alrite for a stock b16a. modding the internals of the b16a can increase the hp of the engine high cam

i recently dynoed tuned my b16a with emanage blue again.

i got 160whp

guys....i just dynoed my b16a2. i got 140whp. is it ok????does my engine healthy...mods done to the car...
k&n filter + guppy type ram + custome extractor + custom piping 2.23 + emanage blue

i was thinking with all the mods i've done should the whp higher???????

 

[RagingAngel]

guys....i just dynoed my b16a2. i got 140whp. is it ok????does my engine healthy...mods done to the car...
k&n filter + guppy type ram + custome extractor + custom piping 2.23 + emanage blue

i was thinking with all the mods i've done should the whp higher???????

when was the last time you did a compression test?

how about changing the distributor cap and rotor?

what about the fuel filter?

what is your base timing set at?

when was a valve adjustment performed?

Are your grounds properly hooked up and are they clean?

How old are your spark plug cables?

How old are your sparkplugs?

do you know what your leak-down numbers are?

Without posting your dyno chart along with AFR numbers, we have no idea what your tune looks like and it could be affecting these numbers (most probably). What were the correction values that day during your runs?

 

[RagingAngel]

ehh.. 140whp should be alrite for a stock b16a. modding the internals of the b16a can increase the hp of the engine high cam

i recently dynoed tuned my b16a with emanage blue again.

i got 160whp
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3231/b16aemanagedynotune26thib5.jpg[/IMG]

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1172/b16aemanagedynotune26thdo3.jpg[/IMG]

Moon, the tune looks pretty good, but it seems like you can do better right around the midrange. Did you guys try playing with when the vtec activates at all? If you did, how did you guys determine that this was the best engagement point?

A properly tuned vtec chart will look very smooth especially with stock (even R) cams.

 

[moon*]

hi ragingangel,
do u have a dyno chart of urs? if yes, i would like to compared the difference.

ehm.. well.. the initial engine/ecu had speed n rev cut.
the tuner here rechip it with a mugen chip + emanage blue. remove the rev n speed cut. but not sure if this cause the engine light to pop up once awhile.

the error given is the 02sensor, i have swap 3 sets and the problem still persist. so they rechip it to FEELS for me.

now testing it to see if the engine check light will go on or not.

and regarding about the VTEC engagement point; the owner of the tuner shop tuned my car personally, well i felt quite humble having the owner tuned the car for me. so.. he sed that 5500 vtec engagement point makes a difference.

ehm.. wat do u think raging demon? should i reset it back to 5.8k instead?
wats ur engagement point? feel free to pin point some info to me,
i m kinda new to VTEC n loads of info can be really helpful

Moon, the tune looks pretty good, but it seems like you can do better right around the midrange. Did you guys try playing with when the vtec activates at all? If you did, how did you guys determine that this was the best engagement point?

A properly tuned vtec chart will look very smooth especially with stock (even R) cams.

 

[civicspoon]

ehh.. 140whp should be alrite for a stock b16a. modding the internals of the b16a can increase the hp of the engine high cam

i recently dynoed tuned my b16a with emanage blue again.

i got 160whp

Dear moon,

really appreciate if you could share with us what was your setting to make 160 whp????? plz...........

 

[RagingAngel]

I actually haven't owned a car with a 16A for more than a few years but the last time I did have one, I gave up on having it tuned and just opted for close gears.

Whatever the case, since you're able to mess with so many programs, I suggest you start with a good base map, meaning from a stock chip if possible and tune with the e-manage. If that's not possible, then the best way to find the optimum vtec engagement point is:

-do one run with the vtec set at 7000rpm
-do a second run with the vtec set at 4000rpm

then overlay the two runs together and where the lines cross - that becomes a very good starting point. It's usually dead on and doesn't vary much more than a couple of hundred rpm if you're getting very picky with the tune.

Another key thing to remember is where the motor makes peak torque, that is where it will take the most fuel. When it starts to fall, you trim it back accordingly.

 

[moon*]

ehm.. well.. lets start off with the engine; i m on a stock B16a from the EG series which is transplanted onto my EK. the engine has internal mods.

the rest is jst.. (stage 1 mods)
tats about it. (i notice a huge difference when i change my exos setup; @ stock. its like the air is stuck; after changing this, i feel that the flow is much much more free..

Emanage Blue
Rechip ECU with FEELS chip
Jasma Stainless Steel 4-2-1 Extractor
JDM DC2 Integra Type-R 2.2" Stainless Steel Mid Piping.
RS*R Ex-Mag GT II Short Mid Box Muffler
EK9 Gearbox
Simota High Performance Guppy Intake
Simota High Performance Air Filter
NGK High Performance Spark Plug (Laser Platinum)
Split Fire Plug Cable
CAI Funnel & Hose
Heatshield & Installation
Arospeed Engine Dampener
Triniti Performance Clutch
Lighten Crank Pulley

Dear moon,

really appreciate if you could share with us what was your setting to make 160 whp????? plz...........

ehm.. mebbe when i have the time n the tuner is free.. i can go there n check it out again

thanks for the tip

I actually haven't owned a car with a 16A for more than a few years but the last time I did have one, I gave up on having it tuned and just opted for close gears.

Whatever the case, since you're able to mess with so many programs, I suggest you start with a good base map, meaning from a stock chip if possible and tune with the e-manage. If that's not possible, then the best way to find the optimum vtec engagement point is:

-do one run with the vtec set at 7000rpm
-do a second run with the vtec set at 4000rpm

then overlay the two runs together and where the lines cross - that becomes a very good starting point. It's usually dead on and doesn't vary much more than a couple of hundred rpm if you're getting very picky with the tune.

Another key thing to remember is where the motor makes peak torque, that is where it will take the most fuel. When it starts to fall, you trim it back accordingly.

 

[jugbugz]

What I'd do is if you have stock cams, keep the vtec set at stock. Set the high cam to low switch 1000rpm lower than your vtec rpm.

With this setup, you'll benefit by staying inside the vtec band even if you shift to early or if your revs go below 5500rpm.

I've got this setup atm and find it works very very well.

Besides, you only change your vtec point if your cam profiles have changed. Honda set it at the right spot.

 

[moon*]

so.. u'll suggesting i should go back to the tuner n set the vtec point back to 5800?

the rest stays the same?

oh ehh.. jst wanna check.. the stock vtec point is 5800krpm

changing it to 5500krpm, does it make alot of difference?? ehh.. wat else can it affect?

What I'd do is if you have stock cams, keep the vtec set at stock. Set the high cam to low switch 1000rpm lower than your vtec rpm.

With this setup, you'll benefit by staying inside the vtec band even if you shift to early or if your revs go below 5500rpm.

I've got this setup atm and find it works very very well.

Besides, you only change your vtec point if your cam profiles have changed. Honda set it at the right spot.

 

[jugbugz]

Well, with the B16B, the high cam profiles is too big to set under 5900rpm. But with the B16A stock cams, I think 5500rpm is fine. (I forgot, uve got a B16A not B.) hehe

If you get a powerdip right after the VTEC transition, it means its set too low.

larger profiles only work in higher RPM ranges. Its all about the Volumetric Efficiency. Basically, When suddenly the cams open the valves too much @ certain RPM ranges @ VTEC transition, you could loose flow, which is why you get a power dip at Vtec Transition, it will then pick up the flow and start making power again.

Thats why with Upgraded cams, you set the Vtec point up higher providing that the primary lobes are big enough to continue making power before Vtec comes on.

But anyway, all upgraded cams always have larger primaries to match the Vtec lobe and make power. You just need to find the correct VTEC Point when you upgrade cams..

But what Raginangel said about setting it @ 3000rpm, then 7000rpm and see where the lines cross-meet. Thats the best point.

 

[civicspoon]

ehm.. well.. lets start off with the engine; i m on a stock B16a from the EG series which is transplanted onto my EK. the engine has internal mods.

the rest is jst.. (stage 1 mods)
tats about it. (i notice a huge difference when i change my exos setup; @ stock. its like the air is stuck; after changing this, i feel that the flow is much much more free..

Emanage Blue
Rechip ECU with FEELS chip
Jasma Stainless Steel 4-2-1 Extractor
JDM DC2 Integra Type-R 2.2" Stainless Steel Mid Piping.
RS*R Ex-Mag GT II Short Mid Box Muffler
EK9 Gearbox
Simota High Performance Guppy Intake
Simota High Performance Air Filter
NGK High Performance Spark Plug (Laser Platinum)
Split Fire Plug Cable
CAI Funnel & Hose
Heatshield & Installation
Arospeed Engine Dampener
Triniti Performance Clutch
Lighten Crank Pulley




ehm.. mebbe when i have the time n the tuner is free.. i can go there n check it out again

thanks for the tip

i guess that ek9 gearbox make all the difference....may i know where you tune your car?????

 

[civicspoon]

i guess that ek9 gearbox make all the difference....may i know where you tune your car?????

if you put FEEL's chip, what happened to the emanage????does emanage perform better already than the chip?????if use the chip, what will the emanage function???????

how much does the chip cost?????

can the chip work properly with standard B16a?????

 

[RagingAngel]

damn holy shiet...that's some serious questions you got there man...you know????????

Ultimately the e-manage is used to fine tune the FEELs chip. I will blatantly put that any chip out there is no match for a properly remapped ECU.

Unless you happened to have the entire catalog of FEELs parts and even then, in the hands of a capable tuner, a proper remap will ultimately drive smoother, deliver more power, have better fuel economy and will run safer.

But what if you don't have access to a dyno? Well... I suppose any chip is better than no chip.

Will it work on a standard B16A?????????????

It will work, but it will not be beneficial till you've performed an intake, header and exhaust.