Jesse888 Forged/stroker turbo ek9


I'd think your first idea is probably on the right lines. Imbalance probably wouldn't cause problems like this, especially at running in rpm's,
As for end float, can you move it by by hand or feel a clunk when pulling on the fly wheel or bottom pulley?
 
Machine shop moved it with a screwdriver against main cap and said it felt ok, wasn't an audible clunk but then it was coated in engine assembly lube.
They said that if crank was bent I wouldn't be able to move it with it all assembled but I'm still not convinced tbh.
I think it's as much something ive got to try this time just to find out....
If it doesn't fix the problem I've got a good condition b18c crank I can sell off to hopefully recoup that cash....
The wear was like a patch on the bearing face that was more shiney than the rest of it, I mean it makes sense right? Would only need alittle bit to start mashing the pump into itself?

One thing that's come from this is I know almost all technical terms and causes for bottom end issues, except my own.....
 
Going back and forth between buying a c4 now or trying a new crank in my engines and rebuilding it one last time.

Looking likely I'll buy a c4 ATM but minds changing every couple hours lol
 
Sucks to hear you are having more problems with this!

Regarding the crankshaft. Would it even be possible to fit a bent crankshaft?? If so surly you would notice more resistance in some main cap bolts more than others, and you would notice if you turned the crank by hand, that is if it would even turn by hand. Finally I think you would know as soon as you start the engine as it would run poorly.

I've never had any experience with bent crankshafts, so this is just my own logic. But maybe worth thinking about.
 
Yeah obviously if it was a large bend you'll notice and have the problems you mention.
I'm more thinking a very slight bend(hence the wear on main bearing closest to pump)
Not enough to notice turning it by hand but when it's spinning at higher Rpms may cause a problem.
Hopefully I'll have more clues when I take the bottom end apart again.
Plan this time is to use a b18c4 while I build this next one back up.
Allows me time to buy more tools/measuring equipment and check the crankshaft over myself.

I want to get this next build balanced so I can rule vibrations from that out aswell.
If I can find a decent machine shop I'll get the mains checked for true alignment aswell.
Obviously all this takes time and money, neither of which I've had this year because of not wanting to miss tracktime.
Assuming I can get atleast average reliability out of a turbo b18c4 should give me the chance to 1. Have some fun in the car again 2. Get to the true bottom of this oil pump wear and then build another forged block back up and hopefully have some success!

I'm open to any other suggestions, even out of the box thinking as a path of investigation I can follow to try and find the root cause.
I think it's something wrong with a component because the wear happens instantly, not after heat or revs. I've built two and they where both built to the book with regards to placement of parts and torque procedures etc.
 
Just playing devils advocate, but is it not time yo hand all of your parts to a builder you trust and leave it to them? I know you want to diy, but would that not be more fun if you could do it as an aside whilst you were still having fun on track?

I feel for you bud, just times ticking on this year and it would be shÎt for you to miss out.
 
You do make a good point mate.
Builder I can trust is a problem for a start...

I'm the kind of person that this would bug if I couldn't do it you know?
B18c4 should last long enough. As much hard work as it is I do enjoy it.

Who do you work with for this kind of thing? Seems the shops I've been too don't want to put much effort in, put me off going into the shops altogether tbh.
 
I'm with you on this one Jesse, honestly not once has a shop done a job on any of my cars I was 100% happy with. I can see why, they work against the clock and can't possibly spend the amount of time I would on every little thing (or rather they could but it would make it too expensive for me!). In the end I ended up not using shops almost at all. I have done all work on my cars for years, now I want a roll cage fitted and I've decided to leave that to the pros as my current welding abilities are only good for patching up holes in our Vitara. What do you know, I've been chasing them for weeks and it's still not done, I'm thinking about scrapping the whole roll cage idea as I don't want to miss the summer. I still have things to do before I'm ready to put the engine back in but the time is running out.
 
This is another thing mate, first shop took 2 weeks to bore the block and wash it.
2nd shop was abit better being bank holiday weekend took them a week to wash and hone the block. Did a good job on it though so probably take my parts to them and ask some questions but I'm willing to bet I'll take it too them and they'll just put it together like I have. = same result.
 
Let first engine I had built buy a guy that does the builds for Genetta. Time wasn't really an issue, so the fact it took a couple of months wasn't an issue. At the minute I'm talking to Ian @ clockwisemotion as it look like I have a crack in my block. As he is well respected it's generally thought that he is really expensive, but I thought it was quite reasonable. As a rough idea, if I was to take my block to him he would disassemble it, replace my block core, and then rebuild using my crank and rods, but with new oversized forged pistons, and all new components shells etc. He would rebuild using my new oil pump and any other bits I have. It would also include a being fully rotationallly balanced and tested. So basically a fully rebuild bottom end ready to put my head on. That would cost approx £1800(+vat) inc all parts and labour. Sounds a lot, but I'd get back a product that I KNOW has been built with meticulous attention, and is good for 350bhp.
 
As an aside with your thoughts on your crank. I was talking to him about cranks and he says that the cranks very rarely fail as the are so hard. What normally happens is bearing failure or some other terminal fault that ends up damaging the crank. He said that if the car runs and starts the crank is unlikely to be damaged as it takes a catastrophic failure of other bits to get that far. If that happens the car normally stops or runs like death then stops.
 
Yeah I can't pay that much just yet. Would take me a few months to have that kind of cash. It's something I can look into anyway but first things first are to get the car back on the track. It's become obvious that this is going to happen with the forged block any time soon so best bang for buck/downtime is a stock block b18c4.
Not ideal but atleast I'm out there....
 
That's on a k20 btw, so b series may be different, but I doubt it.
 
Yeah I doubt they are any different tbh.
Perhaps it's my fitting of the pumps, again I doubt it as it's pretty straight forward.
Wear on the crank snout?
All these things I'll test for when I'm stripping the block down.
I won't be rushing because I'll have a working engine(hopefully) in the car.
 
Took oil pump off today to check my suspicions, I was spot on. Oil pumps wearing out again.
Took seal off the pump and stuck feeler gauge in the gap between the crank and the pump gear, same clearance all the way round so probably rules out a bend in the crank...
Tried to check for end play but I couldn't hardly see the crank move so I doubt it's that either.
Pulled main cap 1 off, small shiney lines like scrapes but nothing that catches my finger or anything.
So I thought perhaps something is putting metal into the oil and it's getting into the pump.
Stripped the turbo and nothing again, clean as a whistle.
Looked up inside the engine and can't see anything obvious.
So basically I'm completely stumped ATM. Only thing that I can think of now is imbalance causing a vibration and that's vibrating the crank into the pump.
Literally no idea otherwise.
So safe to say I'll be buying a b18c4 from somewhere and running that while this goes into a professional to find the problem.
 
So update lol

Just bought a b18c4
Apparently 88k miles....
Good runner and all that B/S
£600 delivered including covering fees.(couldn't find any much cheaper than that with similar mileage)
Bloke sounds very professional, says he's sending me a video of it running tomorrow before it gets removed.
Should have it this week and in the car by the weekend. I'm really hoping that this is it for the engine issues for a good while!
 
I would have your crank checked before anything else.
You are throwing darts at a dartboard that isnt there.
Why would your crank bend?
 
I've been to two shops, asked them to check it.
Both just looked at it and went "yeah looks alright"
The first one atleast measured the journals and checked they where in spec but nothing else.
I've heard of afew Honda cranks that have been bent so I'm cautious to it.
This crank was in ijwhitemans b18 that dropped a valve. Whether that is enough to cause that I don't know.
From my little feeler gauge check on the pump gear today it would seem it's straight anyway.
Basically I have no idea what's going on with it so it needs a pro to look it over.
I've not got pro time or money which means I need a stop gap, que b18c4....
 
Imbalance would cause rapid wear on the mains I would think rather than just killing a pump,

Good that you've found a c4 though.
Are you going to swap the head over? You will possibly need some adjustments to the map to compensate for the compression ratio difference
 
B16b head going on.
Will get a tweek from romain once it's in and running. My forged block was 9.96-1.
Not sure what a c4 with b16b head is but not sure it's far off.
Yeah I was thinking similar about inbalance pretty much a mystery ATM lol
 
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