K20/b18

[eg6-b18c6]

@eg6-b18c6.... You say you reach 250BHP and where do you go from there with the B series? Well you can also stroke to a 2.2 if you wanted to keep N/A and im sure you could get very close 300BHP still N/A.

Also you say you can make the K forced induction. Well you could also do the same with B series. You could whack a big turbo on it with low compression pistons/forged rods/head bolts etc etc and get pretty much what ever power you want(within reason obviously).

The K will always have a slight edge, that is all. However i do like the idea of a fairly basic K set up reaching around 240BHP without having to build the engine up.

my point mainly being that if you had the modified high output n/a b series then all your n/a work will have gone to waste. where if you have a k at 250bhp then you still have the option of adding to your current setup either through f/i or n/a without having to undo work you have done so far while still having

yes you can probably get a b upto 300 n/a stroking etc, but you can acheive more on a k using stock cranks etc, if you put the same amount of work into your k you would be nearer 400hp n/a.

for me i love to have an oem stock block setup, reliable and relatively cheap to fix if it goes wrong.

 

[eg6-b18c6]

Are you actually havin a laugh mate.

Nearly all DC5's are more expensive in todays market than DC2's - thats what i was reffering to - and the DC5 is a great JDM car with all the JDM goodies

Unlike the UK EP3 (which is more like the VTi of the EP3 world) which is why the JDM EP3's (real type-r) are probably still more expensive than EK9's.

Who would pay 8k for someones chopped up k20 DC2 when they could buy a mint stock DC5 for slight bit more. And add in how rare the DC5 is.

If someone was in the market for a DC2 they are prob more inclined to spend around 6k on a Stock unmolested example.

i bet the best ek9's go for more than the bottom end jdm ep3r, same as the best dc2's go for more than the bottom end dc5's....it all comes down to what a person prefers.....I'm willing to bet that in 20+ years time dc2's and ek9's will be worth more than dc5/ep3's

"Who would pay 8k for someones chopped up k20 DC2 when they could buy a mint stock DC5 for slight bit more. And add in how rare the DC5 is."

answer, 'I would'. I would MUCH rather have a 231 bhp/ton, in what is widely regarded as the best fwd chassis than a mundane 173 bhp/ton in slightly watered down heavy chassis which evo magazine claim 'has lost a little of the old cars magic'

you obviously dont get it mate, but some people do.....i would never even consider a dc5 if i had 8k to spend, i'd rather put 8k into a ef civic or something and have 10 times the fun.....and as for the dc5 being rarer??? i dont know where you live, but i've never seen another silver 98 spec on the roads with my own eyes, i've never seen another k20 dc2 on the road with my own eyes, but ive seen 20 dc5's in total and probably about 2 other 98 spec jdm's

i very well may struggle to sell my car for 8k, but i cant think of anything i'd replace it with for anything near that......and i could get my 8k in parts easily.

Most people may be in the market for a stock unmolested one but there's people out there that would also prefer a fast one

 

[689R]

God this thread has moved on lol.

I too would prefer a k20 dc2 or even a freakin stock dc2 over a DC5. Having driven both IMO dc2 is way more fun.

Also the b18c plus 3k would be faster than k20 arguement, 3k wouldnt fully build an engine and would maybe give 230bhp, but with a lumpy idle and a shifted powerband so sacrificed drivablity.

The whole point of a kseries is it makes as much power with bolt ons, as a fully built b18c.

I dont know about everyone else on this forum but iv driven a k20 eg with 249bhp and 177lbs ft, a dc2 with bolt ons, a stock dc2, stock dc5, dc5 with bolt ons, b20 ek and a dc2 with bolt on and cams(not driven but passengered) and the k20d eg was so mch better than them all.

eg6-b18c's dc2 would prob be able to keep up with a JRSC EP3, as my friends eg did, and that is a fast car.

300bhp bseries NA is also totally laughable on pump fuel in this country ha. Whatever road you go down kseries will always make more power.

 

[EK9dan]

my point mainly being that if you had the modified high output n/a b series then all your n/a work will have gone to waste. where if you have a k at 250bhp then you still have the option of adding to your current setup either through f/i or n/a without having to undo work you have done so far while still having

yes you can probably get a b upto 300 n/a stroking etc, but you can acheive more on a k using stock cranks etc, if you put the same amount of work into your k you would be nearer 400hp n/a.

for me i love to have an oem stock block setup, reliable and relatively cheap to fix if it goes wrong.

I see what your saying.

 

[Barryl85]

i bet the best ek9's go for more than the bottom end jdm ep3r, same as the best dc2's go for more than the bottom end dc5's....it all comes down to what a person prefers.....I'm willing to bet that in 20+ years time dc2's and ek9's will be worth more than dc5/ep3's

Completely agree with this, but on the EK9/EP3 part you are comparing the high end of one market to the low end of another its not a pheasable argument.

I'd also imagine EK9 + DC2's will eventually be more expensive but you can see that trend happening now.

"Who would pay 8k for someones chopped up k20 DC2 when they could buy a mint stock DC5 for slight bit more. And add in how rare the DC5 is."

answer, 'I would'. I would MUCH rather have a 231 bhp/ton, in what is widely regarded as the best fwd chassis than a mundane 173 bhp/ton in slightly watered down heavy chassis which evo magazine claim 'has lost a little of the old cars magic'

I never said what i'd rather have, i'd rather build than buy - so i'd always be looking for a stock car. I'd also rather have a DC2.

I never said anything about how a DC5 is more or less exciting than a DC2 but i know that unless its true honda enthusiast or a petrol head buying - most would go for the newer stock car.

Just because we prefer faster car doesnt mean everyone does - some people prefer comfort & alot of people believe newer cars are more reliable.

you obviously dont get it mate, but some people do.....i would never even consider a dc5 if i had 8k to spend, i'd rather put 8k into a ef civic or something and have 10 times the fun.....and as for the dc5 being rarer??? i dont know where you live, but i've never seen another silver 98 spec on the roads with my own eyes, i've never seen another k20 dc2 on the road with my own eyes, but ive seen 20 dc5's in total and probably about 2 other 98 spec jdm's

Ohh I get it alright mate - i never once told you 'my' opinions - i was generalising and i explained that in my first reply.

I'd never consider a DC5 either, i'd have a 9 anyday over it.

DC5 is rarer in this country than a DC2 - no matter what colour variations / engines you talk about - more poeple would recognise a DC2 to be an Integra than a DC5

I have never seen a silver DC2 or a K20'd one for that matter either but it doesnt make the DC2 that you have rarer to any unsuspecting eyes.

i very well may struggle to sell my car for 8k, but i cant think of anything i'd replace it with for anything near that......and i could get my 8k in parts easily.

Most people may be in the market for a stock unmolested one but there's people out there that would also prefer a fast one

I contested about you saying you could get ALL (thats right you said all) your money back. That was it - you will never get ALL your money back on a modified car.

Yeah most people looking at these cars would prefer a faster car but alot of people are against engine transplants and alot of people wouldnt even bother looking at one and then there are others who want to do the transplant themselves.

God this thread has moved on lol.

I too would prefer a k20 dc2 or even a freakin stock dc2 over a DC5. Having driven both IMO dc2 is way more fun.

My opinion is the same - but you love bashin the B-Series these days lol

Also the b18c plus 3k would be faster than k20 arguement, 3k wouldnt fully build an engine and would maybe give 230bhp, but with a lumpy idle and a shifted powerband so sacrificed drivablity.

The whole point of a kseries is it makes as much power with bolt ons, as a fully built b18c.

I dont agree with this - i mean what is 'fully built' you cant really answer that - 3k into a b18c you could see more than 230 easily.

I dont know about everyone else on this forum but iv driven a k20 eg with 249bhp and 177lbs ft, a dc2 with bolt ons, a stock dc2, stock dc5, dc5 with bolt ons, b20 ek and a dc2 with bolt on and cams(not driven but passengered) and the k20d eg was so mch better than them all.

No one denies this - but its the money involved that puts people off - everyone agrees with the fact K-Series is a better swap and has great power with bolt ons.

eg6-b18c's dc2 would prob be able to keep up with a JRSC EP3, as my friends eg did, and that is a fast car..

300bhp bseries NA is also totally laughable on pump fuel in this country ha. Whatever road you go down kseries will always make more power.

First part yes - second part no.

Who cares beyond 350+ horsepower - i'd render these cars un-drivable if it got beyond that.

(i mean whats the highest horse power K-Series vs the Highest horsepower B-Series engine? i couldnt tell you cos i'd never be interested )

 

[eg6-b18c6]

i started responding but bah, i've said all i need to.

I think in the drag racing scene the b series still have the fastest cars, but the k's are getting quicker and quicker all the time....i've seen 822whp on stock sleeves with a k tho, so with a k, you are never going to need more than pistons and rods for any amount of hp that would be usable on the roads.

There is a guy on k20a.org who has a very similar setup to mine except has a rotrex charger aswell. he's running 370whp, (was only aiming for about 330whp but apparently his n/a ips cams jumped in and produced 40 extra whp) he was only aiming for the lower figure because he does some kind of racing and didnt want a setup which would break traction out of tight turns....well because he is using a large centrifugal charger it builds boost with revs giving him a VERY n/a looking power curve without the big jump in bottom end torque a turbo or jr charger would give, aparently he has zero traction issues and is VERY happy with his setup.....i think his name is sujinx or something along them lines, he's on k20a.org.......deffinately worth a look.

i used to be a firm beliver in the b, now i have seen the light.

i'm kinda starting to feel like an atheist trying to convince a priest that god doesnt really exist.....

 

[Barryl85]

Ha ha - you dont need to convince me mate or probably alot of other people either - its all about the money, i'm pretty sure most people would rather have the K-Series.

Especially if it was cheaper to convert - and probably with better fitting conversion kits.

 

[egshane]

k20 will always have more power than the b18 standard.

it will cost alot ALOT of money for a b18 to reach the same power as a stock k20.

doing a k20 swap is all about how big your wallet is i personally thing

but K > B is everyway,

but thinking about it i would rather keep my b16b till it blows then most prob go b18

 

[eg6-b18c6]

It does cost more than it should really to do a kswap, especially in the uk, it's a shame really, but wont be too long before tegiwa or somebody start producing mounts etc to make it a lot cheaper....the price of engines has already dropped and will continue to do so as the cars get older, also people are now getting great power using the 160hp k20's using oem parts like type r cams....as people learn more the k swap will be doable on a much lower budget.

i think the main thing with k swaps is on paper it doesnt seem like you get much 'bang for your buck' so to speak, it's easy to overlook the other advantages and just concentrate on the power increase. i remember mentioning my engine swap to somebody at work who isn't very into his cars.....conversation went something like this....

HIM:whats that engine swap thing your doing Ben?
ME:i'm putting a civic type R encine in an integra type R.
HIM:What brake horse are them civic type r's like?
ME:197 standard, but i've got a few bits on mine.
HIM:and what brake horse is your old engine?
ME:197
HIM:Isn't it costing you like five grand or something? for the same brake horse?

it's about this point i just feel like walking away haha

 

[_JT]

Nobody ever thinks about the resale value of the car either, things can force the sale of a car and you will never make anywhere near your money back on a car with a special k.

Would you make back your money on a B18C with 3-4k of mods? Exactly And it goes for all cars/car parts that have a lot of money put in it.

 

[Barryl85]

Would you make back your money on a B18C with 3-4k of mods? Exactly And it goes for all cars/car parts that have a lot of money put in it.

I already said in this thread you won't ever get your money back that you put into a car so don't know where your goin with that..............

Trust me - I would know all about this.

I just mentioned that instead of k20 you could have an easy swap then put money into the b18 as an alternative.

 

[Vtec6000]

I think if anyone goes for a rip in a K20 eg/ek civic they will be far more impressed than a b18c installed one. Personally I like decent low down power i.e when I plant my foot in a high gear at 3k rpm it pulls hard which is exactly what the K20 eg/ek swap civic offers.

 

[_JT]

I already said in this thread you won't ever get your money back that you put into a car so don't know where your goin with that..............

Trust me - I would know all about this.

I just mentioned that instead of k20 you could have an easy swap then put money into the b18 as an alternative.

Ok, sorry, I thought you meant that you would get most of your money back with a heavily tuned B18 but not with a next to stock K20.

 

[689R]

gerry has just put a K24 in a delsol which has 145lbs ft at 2000rpmz and 187lbs ft peak.

k > all for NA tuningz