B18C V B16B Comparison Video -Rolling Start


Tmus said:
the 98 spec DC2 has lower gear ratios, thats why it feels rapid through 1-2-3. the 98 spec DC2 feels very quick on the throttle.

but when I had runs with it, there's nothing in it, and i pull away if I just got on the throttle earlier.

So to answer questions, there isn't really much in it, But if you are racing up hill. then it will be more significant. (e.g. downhill my mates DC5 can not catch me, but uphill 3rd gear and he is gaining)

I agree that changing B16B to B18C isn't really worth it, might as well get the K20! or B20.

so Just drive the nuts of your EK9, it will make up for those 200cc
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I have a 4.785FD on the modded 9 and it simply cannot compare to the DC2R. Big difference since I was comparing a modded 9 with a stock DC2R.

You wont end up spending much since you get money back from the 16b. Providing the B18C is in good condition, its worth every penny!

A choice between a B18C and K20 is a big gap in between. Simply costs a bomb for a JDM K20A swap but it is worth it if you have the budget and time. Many have good results from the B20 but realiabilty, build up, fuel efficiency wise, i'd stick with the B18C.

The amount of FUEL my stock DC2R drinks is shitloads compared to my modded 9. Big difference with fuel comsumption between 200cc as well as power.
 
nice review.

have you dragged your 2 cars? it will need interesting to see a video of it.

I guess what i meant was if I (personally) going to do a swap, I will build a B20 then just swap it when it is ready, or a K20. That way it makes it more worthwhile...if you get what i mean.

I think the B16b is enough for the application, outright a big capacity engine will always have more power, but from experience B18c still needs to be driven "right" in order to have the advantage. ( hope that makes sense)
 
nice right up

always prefered the b18 over the k20 though

more oldskool
 
that was a good write up Jugbugz.................

I would honestly have to experience it myself before comitting to the effort and cost of swapping engines over........ as ive personally gone head to head with one and wasnt "shocked" by the speed in any way.......

So really would have to feel one... Just cant see how there is a MASSIVE difference, doesnt add up,

But i wont say more, hopefully one day i can feel one myself, thats would be good...
 
D'janiero said:
lol, that would be another good comparison to see dude. 98 spec b18c ek9 v 96 spec b18c ek9:D

How dyou find the b18c compared to your b16b rice?
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i would say the difference is very noticeable since the swap and basic breather mods i have gained like 15mph top end:).
however i did not just choose to do the conversion it was because my b16b blew up and seen as the two engines cost about the same i went with the more powerful b18c:D. although its been great fun with the new engine i would rather have my b16b and a load of money in my pocket. for people considering the swap try speaking to someone like ek9turbo first who seems to know his stuff and could maybe get your b16b to simaler power figures without having to stroke or replace the b16b. i myself would rather have a 9500rpm b16b than my b18c as the extra low grunt is just useless. even with my b18c you have to use vtec to get anyware. it is better than the b16b but i dont care what anyone says up to 6k its still rubish, my mates got a mk3 golf gti(115bhp) and without me using vtec we are about the same 1st-4th gear:shocked:. however if i use vtec bye bye gti :D
 
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We all know of the torque issues of the B series before VTEC, but the B18C has more torque and power throughout the rev range compared to the B16B so if the B18C is rubbish...then the B16B is??

;)

This is what makes the K20 so appealing to me. So much more torque throughout the rev range and actually getting somewhere without using VTEC!

The whole point of VTEC was so that you could poodle around with good ecomony saving the world and then when you race on track, because you are going to be in the high rev's anyway, you will always more or less be in VTEC.

It is a bit annoying having nothing before VTEC but oh well :(
 
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I think rice has put my point even clearer. Well said... Compared to most performance cars the torque is **** so anyone that says the b18c has amazing torque needs a ride in my 2.0litre turbo starlet with 310lbs torque by 4500rpm.... B18 will have bit better torque but nothing exactly mind crushing... Even k20, around 160lbs torque with a few mods, that is still **** really to be honest...
 
EK9dan said:
I think rice has put my point even clearer. Well said... Compared to most performance cars the torque is **** so anyone that says the b18c has amazing torque needs a ride in my 2.0litre turbo starlet with 310lbs torque by 4500rpm.... B18 will have bit better torque but nothing exactly mind crushing... Even k20, around 160lbs torque with a few mods, that is still **** really to be honest...
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Why are you comparing the torque of a 2 litre turbo charged engine to a 1.6/1.8 N/A engine? If you are going to compare or say the torque out put is ****, compare it to other 1.6 N/A engines.

Are there any 1.6 N/A engines out there that produce more torque? This is a sincere question, because I really don't know.

I believe the 106 GTI produces 107 ft lb, which also is a 1.6 engine, so when comparing against the B16B how is the torque output of it ****?

I dont think anyone here is saying that either engine has mind boggling torque and on paper, K20 conversions shouldnt be as great as they seem, but look at the video's on the net. K20's conversions make a very fast car.
 
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Tmus:
turning into a street and nailing it in 2nd gear. The DC2R is already in Vtec while the EK9 is still at 5000rpm. You can imagine the gap between the cars. Although my 9 has breather mods, the top end does seem to rev better from 3rd gear onwards. The stock DC2R kinda slows down after 8000-8200rpm. But add the same mods to the DC2R and then see what happens?! Again if we're using human skills comparisons then its better off experiencing boths cars yourself, because its not rocker science to understand what your feeling when your foot is planted down. You dont need another car and driver racing next to you.

EK9dan:
You can get a B16 to make same or more peak WHP. But it doesnt tell everything. Theres also the Torque figures and hp/torque band? Seriously guys, if you were in AUS and I give you both my cars to try out, coming out from both cars, youd obviously know the DC2R is faster, its not rocket science to compare the feeling of 2 cars when you plant your foot down. The turbo starlet with max torque of 400nm at 4500rpm will drive totally different from a B18C putting down 220bhp/200Nm and 9000rpm. High revving engines can put down the torque better and quicker. Engines that make peak torque at very high rpms tells a lot about the way it delivers. Thats why its rapid considering low output figures. Its the way it delivers the HP and torque. Think about the GOLF GTI vs GOLF turbo Diesel. Obviously turbo diesel has more torque but looses out on HP and RPM. The GTI pawns it and delivers differently.

I'm with you on the K20A figures but dude...
I really didnt expect much when I was in my friends jdm k20a EK...until he planted his foot down... OMG, its like a fricken rocket!! I've driven NSXs, 911s, ferraris etc but this EK is damn fast! and is the fastest Honda ever sat in. Its not just quicker, and its not just obviously faster with the capacity advantage. Its totally miles and leagues quicker than any EG b18C or Ek B20.

A stripped EK K20a can run high 12s with road tyres with appropriate settings to the dampers and ride height. Expect 12.5 minimum with slicks. And for a FWD car that hits 12s, the acceleration is equivalent to AWD and RWD cars that hit 11s. Simply because FWD cars have the worst launch. But yeh, you should really experience a nice condition DC2R or if your lucky, a K20a swapped civic. Just make sure its a JDM motor.
 
we have JDM K20a`d a DC2 the performance is phenomenal,
night and day different form the old jackson racing supercharged b18c6 that we had in it before,
it pulls hard from low in the rev range and then turns into an absolute animal as the RPM rises,

this coupled with the close ratio 6 speed box makes for very impressive accelleration everytime you change gear it feels like it pulls just as hard in the next gear as the one before,

The JDM K20a will pull hard from 100mph like a b18c pulls at 50mph..................
 
Gee said:
Why are you comparing the torque of a 2 litre turbo charged engine to a 1.6/1.8 N/A engine? If you are going to compare or say the torque out put is ****, compare it to other 1.6 N/A engines.

Are there any 1.6 N/A engines out there that produce more torque? This is a sincere question, because I really don't know.

I believe the 106 GTI produces 107 ft lb, which also is a 1.6 engine, so when comparing against the B16B how is the torque output of it ****?

I dont think anyone here is saying that either engine has mind boggling torque and on paper, K20 conversions shouldnt be as great as they seem, but look at the video's on the net. K20's conversions make a very fast car.
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gee you seem like a rather confused fella and your slightly misunderstanding what i have to say about the b18c :). i do agree it produces better torque than the b16b and is better outside of vtec. the thing is although pulling harder up to 6k then the b16b its still nothing special till you hit vtec. if i was to strip out my 9 and it weighed the same as a 106 gti(theoretically) and we raced through the gears both shifting at 6k i can promise you it would completely destroy the 9 even with a b18. this isnt anything to do with torque but that the 106 is producing peak hp and the 9 is miles away from peak hp at 6k. what im getting at is that if you choose to upgrade to a b18c it will feel like you have an all round better engine but in terms of speed you will find all the difference once in vtec. with the b16b people think that once you get into vtec thats it your off but infact its still not really getting anywhere till about 7k maybe even more. with the b18 i find that it makes good power anywhere in the vtec range. let me give an example imagine your travelling along the motorway at 6k so vtec has just engaged in 5th and you want to accelerate. if i had my b16b i would actually drop it down a gear even if doing so would mean i only have like 800 rpm till redline and i would be going quicker than if i just left it in 5th. now with the b18 it will just pull hard in 5th from 6k dropping down a gear and maxing out 4th would probobly slow me down.
i must warn i am no technical guru so feel free to disagree :D
 
Nothing to do with the comparison but - anybody who feels their car is 'flat' before vtec (16 or 18) should invest in a change of FD or a gearset. Other option with basic mods is an S300. With a gearset you will find that as you change gear at low revs, normal driving, the car just surges forward, torque multiplication :D
 
Gee said:
Why are you comparing the torque of a 2 litre turbo charged engine to a 1.6/1.8 N/A engine? If you are going to compare or say the torque out put is ****, compare it to other 1.6 N/A engines.

Are there any 1.6 N/A engines out there that produce more torque? This is a sincere question, because I really don't know.

I believe the 106 GTI produces 107 ft lb, which also is a 1.6 engine, so when comparing against the B16B how is the torque output of it ****?

I dont think anyone here is saying that either engine has mind boggling torque and on paper, K20 conversions shouldnt be as great as they seem, but look at the video's on the net. K20's conversions make a very fast car.
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I didnt mean to sound like i was comparing my starlet to a B16B EK9, as that is very stupid if i were, as my 5th in the starlet pulled as hard as 3rd gear in my civic.....

I think my point is that these Vtec engines/hondas are all about there nature to Rev hard and feel the pleasure to hit such high RPM.....

they wernt built for their low end torque otherwise even the B18 as well as the K20 would have alot more torque then they do(which compared to other cars up to 6000RPM like RICE mentioned they are still very poor until they hit VTEC(which is later on the rev range)

People are going on about how nice the torque is lower end of the scale but i can honestly say this doesnt hugely appeal to me in this particular car even though i am quite a "Torque lover"..... I am happy to sacrifice that low down grunt for some decent speed up the top... Its what the car is all about IMO..... And also i dont really get beaten much rolling at say 3000RPM as the mods ive done seem to pull through the revs up to VTEC very quickly and freely......

Some will have a need to change this, others wont......

Competion wise the B18 may be better, but i feel the all round performance of the EK9 is very good and can mular alot of cars... I dont think it "needs" as some put it, 200cc more, as i love my EK9 the way it is, and i really do enjoy it :)

If i wanted a torquey car it wouldnt be any honda............
 
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the b18 isnt faster then the b16, i seen some b16's cause some damage, the b18 is just more torqueier
 
rice said:
gee you seem like a rather confused fella and your slightly misunderstanding what i have to say about the b18c :). i do agree it produces better torque than the b16b and is better outside of vtec. the thing is although pulling harder up to 6k then the b16b its still nothing special till you hit vtec. if i was to strip out my 9 and it weighed the same as a 106 gti(theoretically) and we raced through the gears both shifting at 6k i can promise you it would completely destroy the 9 even with a b18. this isnt anything to do with torque but that the 106 is producing peak hp and the 9 is miles away from peak hp at 6k. what im getting at is that if you choose to upgrade to a b18c it will feel like you have an all round better engine but in terms of speed you will find all the difference once in vtec. with the b16b people think that once you get into vtec thats it your off but infact its still not really getting anywhere till about 7k maybe even more. with the b18 i find that it makes good power anywhere in the vtec range. let me give an example imagine your travelling along the motorway at 6k so vtec has just engaged in 5th and you want to accelerate. if i had my b16b i would actually drop it down a gear even if doing so would mean i only have like 800 rpm till redline and i would be going quicker than if i just left it in 5th. now with the b18 it will just pull hard in 5th from 6k dropping down a gear and maxing out 4th would probobly slow me down.
i must warn i am no technical guru so feel free to disagree :D
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Don't think I'm confused at all.

In all of the above, you have simply said the B18C is a better all round engine compared to the B16B.

And the B series engines make peak power high up in the rev range and not really going anywhere until 7K..so what?

I thought this was a comparison between the B16B and B18C? Therefore, you have agreed the B18C is better than the B16B but not massively.

Not sure where the GTI stuff came into things.

EK9dan said:
I didnt mean to sound like i was comparing my starlet to a B16B EK9, as that is very stupid if i were, as my 5th in the starlet pulled as hard as 3rd gear in my civic.....

I think my point is that these Vtec engines/hondas are all about there nature to Rev hard and feel the pleasure to hit such high RPM.....

they wernt built for their low end torque otherwise even the B18 as well as the K20 would have alot more torque then they do(which compared to other cars up to 6000RPM like RICE mentioned they are still very poor until they hit VTEC(which is later on the rev range)

People are going on about how nice the torque is lower end of the scale but i can honestly say this doesnt hugely appeal to me in this particular car even though i am quite a "Torque lover"..... I am happy to sacrifice that low down grunt for some decent speed up the top... Its what the car is all about IMO..... And also i dont really get beaten much rolling at say 3000RPM as the mods ive done seem to pull through the revs up to VTEC very quickly and freely......

Some will have a need to change this, others wont......

Competion wise the B18 may be better, but i feel the all round performance of the EK9 is very good and can mular alot of cars... I dont think it "needs" as some put it, 200cc more, as i love my EK9 the way it is, and i really do enjoy it :)

If i wanted a torquey car it wouldnt be any honda............
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I think you guys are getting it wrong.

Just because people may compare the torque of a K20 to a B16B/B18C does not mean they are trying to imply the torque is 'out of this world', simply that is produces more all over the rev range compared to the B series and makes all the difference.
 
Gee said:
Don't think I'm confused at all.

In all of the above, you have simply said the B18C is a better all round engine compared to the B16B.

And the B series engines make peak power high up in the rev range and not really going anywhere until 7K..so what?

I thought this was a comparison between the B16B and B18C? Therefore, you have agreed the B18C is better than the B16B but not massively.

Not sure where the GTI stuff came into things.



I think you guys are getting it wrong.

Just because people may compare the torque of a K20 to a B16B/B18C does not mean they are trying to imply the torque is 'out of this world', simply that is produces more all over the rev range compared to the B series and makes all the difference.
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But my point is also it doesnt make all the difference, unless that what your after, more torque.

And gee, The GTI stuff was mentioned because you asked for another 1.6 that compares in torque/ low down power, and the 1.6GTI against EK9 both only revving to 6K the GTI would easily come out on top.....
 
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EK9dan said:
But my point is also it doesnt make all the difference, unless that what your after, more torque.

And gee, The GTI stuff was mentioned because you asked for another 1.6 that compares in torque/ low down power, and the 1.6GTI against EK9 both only revving to 6K the GTI would easily come out on top.....
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It might not make 'all that much difference', but it makes a difference. Thats all I am saying. Is this not why people do the conversion in the first place...

Why are we arguing about this? LOL

When I was asking about 1.6 engines, I was comparing the torque, not the peak HP. Simply because you said the torque of the B16B was '****'.

So I wondered, **** compared to what? If your comparing it to 1.6 turbo charged engines, yes it is ****..so compared to other N/A engines..is it ****?

I was not asking about how a race would come out between the two.
 
I said all vtecs even the K20 produce low torque for a peformance car... The Civic EP3 doesnt exactly fly off before VTEC, 2 of my mates had them and i drove one of them and it was nice and drivable but felt very average before VTEC.... The car only weighs 1200KG too.....

Ahh opinions opinions aie, thats all these are........ lol

Not arguing gee, just discussing :)
 
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