Strut braces - 2 point vs. 3 point.


Kozy

Kozy

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According to these guys a three point front upper strut bar could have negative effects over a normal 2 point.

Anyone got any idea where they are coming from on this?

Infact, they seem to have a lot of contradictory advice there, does anyone agree with it?
 
Depends on a huge amount of factors really

To sum it up, every bracing addition i have made to my car has had a positive effect for me

That article says that some braces should be removed when adding a cage! I mean how many proper race cars have you see that they fit a cage then say oh wait we won't both seam wwelding it, just not worth it, or wait, lets remove these bars from the cage as i think that's just a bit too much :nerv:

The tighter you make the chassis, the more you can maximise the potential of the suspension itself

If someone turned round to me and said they were experiencing understeer after fitting a 3 point brace then i would question the way their car was set up and/or their driving style


I recently changed from spoon front / j's racing rear braces to a set of Password JDM 3 point front and 2 point rear braces. I decided to change the braces as with running race suspension now i wanted to make sure the car was braced as well as posible, combination of the new braces being 1 piece welded and including an extra point of contact on the front brace this should help
 
Its referring to making the car too stiff and therefore loosing some of the chassis compliance.
Compliance allows all four tyres to stay in contact with the road service.
Thats the basics of their opinion I believe.
 
Thing is though, if you corner hard enough you will be lifting a rear wheel with a cage fitted regardless of bracing or lack of, their artical is specifically reffering to removing bracing with a cage fitted........

In my opinion you get much more feedback and response from a fully braced car and there is no need to have contact on all 4 tyres for FWD

Look at alot of production road cars, Clio 182 cup, new Focus RS, megane R26R. All focussed road cars with extensive research and development, pretty much every review of them you see on track they are cocking a rear wheel at every oportunity


If compliance was more important than rigidity then why did honda make the chassis of the FD2 50% stiffer than that of the DC5?
 
stevenEK9 said:
Thing is though, if you corner hard enough you will be lifting a rear wheel with a cage fitted regardless of bracing or lack of, their artical is specifically reffering to removing bracing with a cage fitted........

In my opinion you get much more feedback and response from a fully braced car and there is no need to have contact on all 4 tyres for FWD

Look at alot of production road cars, Clio 182 cup, new Focus RS, megane R26R. All focussed road cars with extensive research and development, pretty much every review of them you see on track they are cocking a rear wheel at every oportunity


If compliance was more important than rigidity then why did honda make the chassis of the FD2 50% stiffer than that of the DC5?
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Its a fair arguement that you make and I don't have any specific disagreement with it.

Except the DC5 chassis, as we all know it's pants :lol: (seriously though, isn't it closely realted to the Honda Stream chassis? )
 
:lol: Agree about the DC5, have never been a fan when in one

They done good with the FD2 though, driven one heaps (dad owns one) and they are fantastic out the box
 
that website seems to be all over the place with the different cars. maybe its just what they deem to work. Its not going to be the same for everyone as we all have different perspectives on what works and what doesn't. ie for those that go on about chassis compliance why do race cars have bracing coming out of every space and use rock hard suspension if it doesnt work, thats my opinion and it will be different for others...
 
stevenEK9 said:
:lol: Agree about the DC5, have never been a fan when in one

They done good with the FD2 though, driven one heaps (dad owns one) and they are fantastic out the box
Click to expand...


I was soo close to buying and FD2 about a year ago but just love the Teg for weekends and comfy 330d for weekdays.


elchunk - compliance and levels thereof are surely related to level os of grip? Put a racing slick on a road car and it will kill the suspension in a few laps...
 
Interesting read but i have to agree with whats been said above by Steve, All bracing i have added has only had a positive effect, 3 wheeling or not!


Never knew that about the DC5 Chassis, I allways assumed they would be good as you could buy a race base model etc. Im going to look into that as im intrigued!
 
Having things too stiff isn't great, race cars do a lot of testing to determine what gives them the best grip, they may be very stiff but maybe they could get it stiffer but lose grip/contact if they do so. It's all about making everything work together for the best performance.


DC5s aren't that bad, they're a good daily from what I've heard and hardly a shopping car.
 
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easy way to show it is
Simply go on to forza or gt5 and put every brace on the car and a roll cage and race supension and it ruins the handling of the car....
as said above it takes a proper suspension guru to be able to correct a car that is too stiff.
3 point brace all the way though kozy...IMO.
 
Having changed from a spoon 2 point to a 3 point I noticed more initial understeer which I had to bump up the damping to sort. Saying that my Ferio has a mild suspension set up . I think the additional firewall mount has no affect whatsoever , 2 x m6 bolts just do not have the strength to transfer load through the brace into the firewall . I think its the actual ''3point'' cross bar's rigidity that has an affect over thinner/pivot braces like Spoon's. Ive recently swapped bars with a friends Carbing 2-point and there is no difference on both my car and his EK9( 9 point cage , aragosta 20kg 18kg , A048s , Mugen ARB's , Cusco mz etc)
 
both my brother and myself went from a 2point to a 3point and we both made comments over the difference we found in the handling. the only time i understeer is in the wet. also were both running buddyclub race spec coilovers and other bracing bits. no cages tho :( yet....
 
Having changed from a spoon 2 point to a 3 point I noticed more initial understeer which I had to bump up the damping to sort.
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was thinkin of gettin one myself. what happend when you re-tune you dampings? improved?

the only time i understeer is in the wet.
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at full speed?
 
stevenEK9 said:
:lol: Agree about the DC5, have never been a fan when in one

They done good with the FD2 though, driven one heaps (dad owns one) and they are fantastic out the box
Click to expand...

What is the DC5 Suzuka lap time? Was searching but couldn't find it


FD2R is 2:35 - of the gear ratios/suspension are completely different.
 
Look at the production of road cars, Clio 182 Cup, the new Focus RS, Megane R26R lot. All those with extensive research and development focus road car, almost every track they review you see them cocking wheel at every opportunity....
 
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