Turbo B16a V B18C Conversion - Opinions Needed


D'janiero said:
Replied to your pm Jugbugz:nice: This car sounds like a beast...would love to see some pics or vids man.

To be honest a K20 swop has never been an option for me really, mainly because of the hassle/cash thats involved. It seems to makes more sense to go down the turbo route imo. And even more so now after what ek9turbo said i.e. "to use the decent mounts you have to change from the EK9 subframe to a EG or DC2 subframe which are faar less rigid or substantial".

I keep changing my mind like the weather, but hopefully I should be stroking my b16b or doing a 98spec b18c this year, untill I can fund a full turbo build.
I could get the turbo build done on the cheap, but i'd rather do it properly and not skimp out on parts etc, and have a motor built to last.
So I b18c will have to do fro the time being, but from what the b18c dudes have told me, I should be more than happy with the swop.

I remember reading a thread about b20's v b18c's before. What is it that makes the b20 builds unreliable and not being able to rev as high as the b18c?
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i think its to do with the cylinder walls been thiner and i assume that it doesnt rev as high is because it the b20 comes from a jeep its more about lower end torque
 
Indeed the they`re weaker than normal B16s so they limit somewhere between 7 and 8 but its the torque that makes the biggest difference. Its not that they`re unreliable but if you want it to rev high then you`ll need better sleeves so its stronger but then people lower the crossover point to like 5300 or around that some even 5k i guess to make the most of the extra torque thats there.

Oh and that spec i posted further up (i found the thread about his dyno run after fitting) made 215bhp at fly and 158ft-lbs with a safe to run map. Once the crossover is lowered a touch, he puts better manifold and system on with a decent map it`ll be nice.
 
Can someone just clear up some information about the B18c conversion!

I understand its the engine from a DC2 ITR, but does the conversion involve just changing the bottom end or the complete engine ?
I hear that the head from the B16b and B18c are exactly the same ? What other parts are needed for the conversion, gearbox, ECU, mounts etc ? And is the conversion quite straight forward ?

Any other information on the conversion would be greatly appreciated.

Josh..
 
Josh, you can use a whole B18c engine or just get hold of varous other parts to convert it to being the same. From just a short-block onto your B16b head etc OR putting a B18C crankshaft in along with the b18 rods. Youll need the b18c computer or a tuneable ecu like a Hondata for example.

Lots of ways you can do it. Most people buy the whole engine and swap them in then either sell the stock motor or build it up as a project untill complete/ready to go in and be tuned.
 
Which gearbox would be best used when going B18C?

The B16B box or the B18C box? Or is there hardly any difference in the ratio's?
 
Gee said:
Which gearbox would be best used when going B18C?

The B16B box or the B18C box? Or is there hardly any difference in the ratio's?
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Good question.I'd like to know this too. Ive heard that the teg box has shorter rations and different final drive?
So the gearing makes the acceleration alot quicker but it can be a pain on long/motorway journeys?

Did'nt get your msn msg bro. You'll have to hit me up afterwork tomorrow. Glad you've converted over. You won't reget it man:nice:
 
Gee said:
Thrown my K20 plan out of the window too.

Put a deposit down on a facelift :nice:
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B18 is the way to go!!!!!:D
Glad to hear it buddy!:clap:

Gee said:
Which gearbox would be best used when going B18C?

The B16B box or the B18C box? Or is there hardly any difference in the ratio's?
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It depend's which year you get the B18 from!

96 spec is the same as the EK9 box
98 spec (s80) has a 4.7 F/D but longer 4,5th gear's so a lot of people dont like the big drop in rev's going into 4th!

I use the Ek9 (s4c) in mine as you know!
If you get a 98 spec B18 with the S80 box i would put that in but i wouldnt worry to much about wich box to use as the +/- of both box's cancel each other out! IMO

There is a vid on hear that show's the two (96 spec 4.4F/D VS 98 spec 4.7F/D) Teg's on a drag like race, which explans this a lot better than word's!:nice:
I would post a link but i cant get to any vid's on my work computer!:angry:
 
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D'janiero said:
I remember reading a thread about b20's v b18c's before. What is it that makes the b20 builds unreliable and not being able to rev as high as the b18c?
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My friend had a fully built b20 sleeved/pisonts/rods/fully balanced and he made 525whp and revved it to 9000rpm all day long!! BUT, this was a race car, for an average street car 8000rpm on a well built b20 should not be a problem. You don't need to rev it as high because it makes a lot of good mid range power.
 
Woah, this thead got bombed!! lol

B18C EK.EG vs JDM K20a EK is worlds apart.
A local B20 EK with Toda B tuned managed a 13.2 1/4 mile. And totally blowned away by the stock K20 EK with basic bolts ons and tune. The amount of torque the JDM K20a puts out behind the wheel was immense! Even though there was only 20whp difference between a b18 and b20, the torque delivery of the K is just mind blowing, pulls very hard from 2000rpm.

K20 is probally the best street setup if thats what you want. There are so many more factors to consider when your building a track car. Sussy, weight and a heap of **** that is ENDLESS>... that we all have to admit, theres no end. Going for the turbo route to main the rigidity of the subframe is another thing. For a street car, it doesn't really matter.

The VTC in the K20 eliminates the lag that you get from a B-series and a low compresion turbo setup, that matters more on the street. Even though the B20 puts out good torque, its still behind the K20 in terms of delivery and numbers, both engines putting out same whp and the K20 will still leave it behind all year long RELIABLY. We all know its more expensive, but it also has much better fuel consumption compared to a B18C.

ek9turbo: It reminds me of a 996 turbo, and the raw feeling of a 993 turbo. It was shocking because even though it only has about 20whp over a B20 or B18C, the torque is just killer and worlds apart! The torque was like turbo power from 2000rpm. We went past 200kmph and still pulling very very hard from 5th gear! Worlds apart compared to a cammed B18CR.

Its the first JDM DC5R K20 I've experienced, the engine is stock, and only done 7000km(4000miles), 3" exhuast system, AEM intake and Hondata tuned.
 
K20 does sound great, but would probably cost £8,000-£9,000 here? And the details EK9turbo has given is putting me off a little :(
 
blinx9900 said:
Care to explain that statement?
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VTC valve timing control.

The K-series usually generate minimum 80% of maximum torque by 2000rpm. You don't feel jack ass until Vtec with the B-series. With 8500rpm, theres a huge powerband compared to B-series.

A friend who owns a EG-B18CR sat in the K20EK and was shocked enough by the amount of torque that made him sell his car to get a K20.

Yeh it usually costs about around 15k-18kAUD to get everything in and running, inc harness, hondata, exhuast system, hasport mounts, custom driveshafts, radiator, intake, tune.
 
jugbugz said:
VTC valve timing control.

The K-series usually generate minimum 80% of maximum torque by 2000rpm. You don't feel jack ass until Vtec with the B-series. With 8500rpm, theres a huge powerband compared to B-series.

A friend who owns a EG-B18CR sat in the K20EK and was shocked enough by the amount of torque that made him sell his car to get a K20.

Yeh it usually costs about around 15k-18kAUD to get everything in and running, inc harness, hondata, exhuast system, hasport mounts, custom driveshafts, radiator, intake, tune.
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turbo lag and VTC are not related at all, turbo lag is just that, it has to do with the turbo size and efficiency.
 
VTC lets you get great economy and great throttle response depending how your driving. A b20 setup with well configured cam gears feels pretty similar, you just dont get mega fuel economy like you can with the K series. A friend of mine gets 40+mpg (us gallon) on his K20a setup. Incredible for that.!

Like you say though an expensive setup.
 
i didnt really take the time to read this whole thread but im running a b18c1 on boost minimally upgrades on the bottom end pushing 15 lbs daily ...i love the fact that i can put the muscle cars to shame when they pull up next to a 4 banger.....lol thats good enough power for me:nice:
 
WyzduM said:
i didnt really take the time to read this whole thread but im running a b18c1 on boost minimally upgrades on the bottom end pushing 15 lbs daily ...i love the fact that i can put the muscle cars to shame when they pull up next to a 4 banger.....lol thats good enough power for me:nice:
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start a thread with your setup!! introduce yourself in the new users section if you have not already!! :welcome:
 
jugbugz said:
VTC valve timing control.

The K-series usually generate minimum 80% of maximum torque by 2000rpm. You don't feel jack ass until Vtec with the B-series. With 8500rpm, theres a huge powerband compared to B-series.

A friend who owns a EG-B18CR sat in the K20EK and was shocked enough by the amount of torque that made him sell his car to get a K20.

Yeh it usually costs about around 15k-18kAUD to get everything in and running, inc harness, hondata, exhuast system, hasport mounts, custom driveshafts, radiator, intake, tune.
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Yummy...K20 sounds nice!
 
blinx9900 said:
turbo lag and VTC are not related at all, turbo lag is just that, it has to do with the turbo size and efficiency.
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misunderstanding here. I'm just emphasizing how B-series and turbod 4cyls dont have the bottom end torque like the K-series. Thats what I meant by VTC technology. The car gets off the line much quicker and driving fast is all too easy with the K-series, you dont need to use Vtec or wait for the turbo to spool up to feel torque. :nice:
 
jugbugz said:
misunderstanding here. I'm just emphasizing how B-series and turbod 4cyls dont have the bottom end torque like the K-series. Thats what I meant by VTC technology. The car gets off the line much quicker and driving fast is all too easy with the K-series, you dont need to use Vtec or wait for the turbo to spool up to feel torque. :nice:
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I personally do not want a lot of low end torque on a fwd car, thats why i chose to build a 1.6 and not a 1.8 or 2.0. Thats also why i chose such a large turbo, i could have chose a GT28RS which would spool at 2000rpm and make more torque earlier than a K and still make 350whp but as i mentioned i do not want low end torque on a fwd car. Do not think it is not possible to achieve low end torque and nearly ZERO turbo lag on B series and still make big power, it is very possible.
 
Why do you not want torque low down? To combat wheel spin?

If so, I doubt the K20 has that much torque (compared to a turbo) anyway, so can probably put it all down to the ground, resulting in it getting of the line great?
 
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