Power steering VS Manual steering rack for Track cars


abunai888

abunai888

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i need help from some track racers i'm preparing my car for the track
so i thought to remove power steering but i searched and found that some racers prefer power steering since it helps in endurance races in tight corners and give less muscle effort due to sessions.
some others post that manual steering gives more road feedback + it adds some power due to less crank losses.:naughty:
i need some opinions here...:nerv:
 
if the car will get used only for track days i would defintaely remove the power steering as its less weight and as said will be far more responsive round corners etc

If you plan on doing both track and daily driving i would advise keeping the p/steering as its a hassle in everyday driving but thats jus personal opinion
 
I have removed my power steering and its not to bad
Sometimes a bit of a pain doing tight parking manoeuvres, just gives you a good work out :)
but once its moving its fine

it definitely gives you more feedback and gives the car a more stable planted feel at high speeds
 
I removed the pas on mine. Agreed, if it is your day to day car then personally I wouldn't as reverse parking requires quite a lot of muscle effort. Also, in terms of fast road driving it can be a bit of a pain as the diff pulls you about with ruts and camber of the road etc.

For track I much prefer not having it, but it did take a little get used to.
Personally I found it easier to drive to the grip of the front tyres. When I had pas I would tend to steer past the limit of the front tyres and understeer, and then unwind the wheel to the point where they're back in traction. Without the pas you get so much more feedback that you can just feel much better when the front tyres at their limit so you don't need to push past it. Hope that makes sense to someone other than myself =D

Other than that you also save the weight of the pas pump and fluid resevoir. Also it frees up the little bit of power it takes to spin the pump. If you do go for it, it's worth trying to find an N1 crank pulley (which are about 3kg lighter iirc) and with the lower rotating mass on the crank you get the same effect as a lightened flywheel to let you gain and lose revs a little quicker.
 
Use mine as a daily an plan to track it this year. Much prefer the steering feel with no pas, parking ain't a problem as I'm used to it now.
Might be a bit harder when running track tyres though
 
If you remove it, remove it PROPER

I stripped the rack, removed the seal that seal the PS chamber as it would cause drag then reassembled the rack greased up with CV grease. Best way to do it, those people who loop the lines are still pushing fluid about which is just stupid

It's fantastic, roll centre adjusters worked a treat too as they seemed to have make the steering a touch easier?! But yeah i get on really well with it, you feel what the cars doing more, don't fit anything less than a 350mm steering wheel though otherwise imagine it would be hard work

Lack of power steering combined with a spoon plated diff, love it :D
 
Yea i agree with clockwoRk, you get a much better feel for the car without the power steering.

I have been to knockhill and when you drive their Leon Cupra is all good but when you get into a designated track car (single seater or legend) no pas :) you can feel the track much better.

But i suppose at the end of the day its personal preference.

I would take it out.
 
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clockwoRk said:
it's worth trying to find an N1 crank pulley (which are about 3kg lighter iirc) and with the lower rotating mass on the crank you get the same effect as a lightened flywheel to let you gain and lose revs a little quicker.
Click to expand...

I fitted one of these last week, i'd say it's half the weight of an oem pulley, so only loosing 1kg

IMAG0491.jpg


Although they are slightly underdriven too :nice:
 
stevenEK9 said:
If you remove it, remove it PROPER

I stripped the rack, removed the seal that seal the PS chamber as it would cause drag then reassembled the rack greased up with CV grease. Best way to do it, those people who loop the lines are still pushing fluid about which is just stupid

It's fantastic, roll centre adjusters worked a treat too as they seemed to have make the steering a touch easier?! But yeah i get on really well with it, you feel what the cars doing more, don't fit anything less than a 350mm steering wheel though otherwise imagine it would be hard work

Lack of power steering combined with a spoon plated diff, love it :D
Click to expand...

How long and how much to do mine mate?
 
I mean doing the whole lot. I've not removed a rack before....
 
stevenEK9 said:
I fitted one of these last week, i'd say it's half the weight of an oem pulley, so only loosing 1kg

IMAG0491.jpg


Although they are slightly underdriven too :nice:
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it's more than that. I vaguely remember weighing mine when I got it and it was about 500g where as the OEM one was well over 3kg (that was an EK4 pulley with A/C though). Not 100% as it was a long time ago and I never wrote it down but it would make sense - the N1 is less than half the size and is alloy whereas the OEM is cast steel.
 
It's 1.8lbs for the N1 pully, so that's about 800g, i will weigh the pulley i took off tomorrow, EK9 oem pulley has AC provision also

True being under half the size, however oem one is hollow inside around where the bolt/crank pulley tool goes.......
 
just wanted to add that for the lightened crank pulleys you lose the harmonic resonator so you ideally want to ensure the engine is highly balanced. the harmonic resonator is there to reduce vibration in the engine and increase longevity. back to the subject though, i would agree that if you do it make sure you do it properly and take it all out
 
I'm going against the trend of this thread and say that i much prefer power steering for the circuit. My school of thought is to help the driver help themself. I agree that there is increased feed back with the non power steering setup however it does take extra effort on some corners and situations which tires the driver out, tired drivers lose strength and in some cases make decisions that aren't the best since they're becoming physically and mentally drained.

I've driven a DC2 with the setup reccomended by stevenEK9 and it is far better then a looped setup and is definely the correct way of going about things. However i took the car for a drive on a local back road which i know very well and have some interesting racing lines. I found on very tight corners and hair pins that i physically could not turn the wheel fast enough to hit the correct apex points that i normally aim for in my car. This wasn't even at very high speed. So just think of this instances where you are going around a corner very quickly and the car suddenly snaps side ways and you need to dial opposite lock very quickly, its possible that you wont be able to and could even result in a crash.

I've tested on the dyno the HP increase from removing the power steering belt and it was zero. However the pump was under no load (not turning) so there could be a tiny bit of power to be gained in that circumstance and there will also be power to be gained with the lighter pulley.

Speaking of dialing opposite lock and going back to my theory of helping the driver help themself. Something that i've done in the past and will be doing very shortly to my EK is put a steering quickner in the coloumn, this is a gearbox along the coloumn which reduces the turns of the steering from lock to lock. Factory our EK4/9's are 2.8 and its possible to get them under 2. That might not seem like much but I can assure you it is HUGE. Having the ability to not have to take your hands off the steering wheel at all when you go from one full lock to the other is a very big advantage. Its one of those modifications that doesn't look good on paper because doesn't give X hp or reduce Y kg but the difference is out of this world. It inspires you to push harder and gives you the confidence to know if something goes wrong you can deal with it quickly. In my EF9 rally car it is 1.9 turns lock to lock and when i hop in my EK with 2.8 turns it is simply scary when on the limit and the car starts to spin. Anyway this is getting off topic and i'm sure you get the gist of what I'm saying. It is the reason why I dont like a genuine manual rack because the lock to lock turns are even more then a factory powered setup. You also cannot run a steering quickner without power steering because the load is too much and the steering is stiffer again. I will actually be going to an electric MR2 power steering pump because I've found with a quickner you can sometimes turn the wheel faster then the factory pump can keep up. The MR2 pump will allow me to turn the pressure up even further.

I look forward to getting it in because i consider it to be the ultimate setup because the factory PS pump is gone, i can run the light pulley, I can turn the steering power up or down and I've got less then 2 turns lock to lock.

Thats my take on steering and power steering pumps from someone who has done a bit of racing over the years.
 
Interesting read that, cheers for sharing :)

Only circuits i have driven are the nurburgring and knockhill, both circuits i do not have to move my hands from the same position on the wheel, can get enough lock in both directions

I have had the back end out on a few ocassions on both circuits and have been able to recover it ok even with the lack of PS, however i do know what you mean about tiring your arms, do need to work on the gunshow a bit :lol:

Can you share how you plan to reduce the lock on the rack? Never seen any short rack kits advertised for the EK :(( Having driven my dads FD2 civic type R penty, it has a shorter rack than an EK9 (must be about 2.5) and even just that extra reduction is amazing


As for the lack of harmonic dampener....... B16B/B18C are balanced from the factory internally, from my point of view then fitting a different crank pulley is just as risky as fitting a different flywheel. I understand that the dampener (rubber filling) of the OEM pulley will kill some vibration, however running 75A durometer engine mounts must already have some affect on the effectiveness of the dampener? I believe some of the problems arise from people fitting cheap aluminium pulleys which wear about the woodruff key and then vibrate and cause all sorts of problems..... The oem N1 pulley is solid chromo and built to OEM standards so i personally believe it is safe to run :)
 
stevenEK9 said:
Interesting read that, cheers for sharing :)

Only circuits i have driven are the nurburgring and knockhill, both circuits i do not have to move my hands from the same position on the wheel, can get enough lock in both directions

I have had the back end out on a few ocassions on both circuits and have been able to recover it ok even with the lack of PS, however i do know what you mean about tiring your arms, do need to work on the gunshow a bit :lol:

Can you share how you plan to reduce the lock on the rack? Never seen any short rack kits advertised for the EK :(( Having driven my dads FD2 civic type R penty, it has a shorter rack than an EK9 (must be about 2.5) and even just that extra reduction is amazing
Click to expand...

Nurburgring, nice!! By getting lock from not removing your hands or doing the mad panic shuffle i mean going from hard lock left to hard lock right with your hands remaining in the same place. Watch in car WRC videos and you'll see how relaxed the driver is chucking it fully sideways knowing he can catch it and place the car very precisely. When you're REALLY pushing and something catches you out big time and the car is fully sideways you need to be able to 'catch' it and continue as quickly as possible. With the quicnker you can do this almost instantly, worst case scenario it saves you from a crash, best case scenario it saves a couple of seconds from you scrubing off speed and making a recovery. In either case I consider it a win.

Here is a steering quickner:

col223.jpg


Think of it as a gearbox in the middle with an input and output shaft. If say you make two turns of the steering wheel, the other side will make four turns (depending on what ratio quickner you decide to run). Make sense?

And heres one installed:

images


There I've gone and said it. The best handling mod you've never heard of...
 
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